Light pollution in East Dulwich

[Amelie]

There seems to be an increasing amount of light pollution in East Dulwich, with many commercial premises leaving their lights and/or illuminated shingles switched on when they have ceased trading for the day. Could our Councillors state whether or not LB Southwark has a policy regarding light pollution, and whether or not there is a possibility of a local bye-law being introduced requiring commercial premises to 'switch off' at the end of the day.

It would also be useful to know if the new streetlamps which are being (very) slowly introduced in East Dulwich focus their light downwards rather than upwards, and whether their lamps are white rather than yellow.

[Administrator]

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Regards

[Asset]

I have had a new streelight put in at the back of my house which is like having a football pitch floodlight shining into my back garden, sitting room and the bedrooms. There always was a light there but it used to be a fairly mellow orange sodium light. Now it is 250 watts of halogen. Horrendous. The council have ignored my requests to have it changed, even though I pointed out that it was a waste of energy (especially when it was on all day through the summer) and I'm tempted to chuck a brick at it.

[macroban]

There's a fair amount of light pollution from domestic windows too.

Perhaps a bye-law for lights out by 11pm too?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I would normally poo-poo suggestions of light-pollution (which is what I suspect you are doing macroban?)

We live in an urban environment but there is a tipping point surely? The Halogen lights Asset describes are a good example of that. I'm sure the argument will be the light provides a safer environment for citizens etc etc but really?? I don't think muggers give it that much thought to be honest

As for urban lighting generally I don't mind street lights, or even shop/restaurant windows. But again... you can go too far - If I lived in a flat on Times Square NY, or Picadilly Circus, I would be so chuffed about "the vibe" I wouldn't care.

But if I'm sharing a room with 2 other people in a bedsit above a shop in LL, need to be up at 5am for work and have that much neon from Foxton's (let's not be coy here) through my window I would be a tad pee'd off

[monica]

Sean dear i wrote a letter to foxtons regarding their light pollution and how much enenergy they are consuming and they chose to ignore me,so what do you. I spoke to the council as well and was told very simpatetically if i lived opposite foxtons and the lights were intruding on my personal space then i would have grounds to complain. But because im thinking more of the energy consumption i dont have a chance. Residents and shoppers on LL have asked me to approach foxtons as a member of East Dulwich SNUB which i did and i was ignored.

What do you do!!!!! Between trying to reduce energy usage,fighting for solar powered lights on LL and asking all the budgens and costcutter shoppers do they really need that bag for 1 packet of gum we have a lot on our plates.

[macroban]

I'm not too keen on street lights either, Mr MacGabhann.

I'd prefer to see the stars in the night sky.

[snorky]

If foxtons wont listen to reason, then they must be pushed into reconsidering their stance by whatever means possible.

[Keef]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> I'm sure the argument will be the light provides a safer environment for citizens etc etc but really?? I don't think muggers give it that much thought to be honest

It's not just about avoiding muggers though, it's about being able to see clearly where you're walking, so you don't trip / miss a kerb / step in a huge puddle etc... For elderly people a fall can have fatal consequences, and good street lighting is very important.

I do sypathise with Asset's story, I really do, but I would still have to vote on the side of good, bright lights.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Good street lighting is a H&S issue, but it can be done in a way that is not too intrusive.

I have a happymemory of being on Lesvos during a powercut at night. Absolute pitch black darkness, no clouds, lying flat on my back watching the pin-prick lights tram-lining across the sky - satellite spotting.

As I walk up Lordship Lane, I see the Light Pollution in East Dulwich and reflect on the relative merits of light and dark. ;-)

[Keef]

I have similar great memories, but most of them involve acid.

[Administrator]

Stay on topic please

[downsouth]

I also think visibility of pedestrians for drivers at night time is important but can see the counter argument. There must be a 'policy' somewhere.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I think you may have a case against them under the nuisance laws, as you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your property, and if the neon and halogen lights are disturbing your quiet enjoyment (whether you are a tenant or owner-occupier) you can take legal action.

[Mellors]

Chav is right - under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 light nuisance is subject to the same criminal law as noise and smells. You need to take records of the nuisance (e.g. how long the light is on for and how often) and get in touch with the Environmental Health Officer at the local Council who will mediate on your behalf.

[blinder999]

yes - http://www.practicalconveyancing.co.uk/content/view/9855/1078?zoom_highlight=%22light+pollution%22 -

Where there have been previous complaints over light pollution, for instance, but it was concluded that nothing could be done, authorities may well want to reconsider under their new powers. The time between now and 6 April could be productively spent considering older disputes and checking for potential new complaints.

[Keef]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

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> I think you may have a case against them under the nuisance laws, as you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your property, and if the neon and halogen lights are disturbing your quiet enjoyment (whether you are a tenant or owner-occupier) you can take legal action.

Or you could buy a black out blind and leave the streets well lit.

[Mellors]

Yes, but the light pollution that comes in my back bedroom is from a local shop leaving its fascia board lit up all night unnecessarily, not from a street light, which would be understandable. I do have a blackout blind, and curtains, and it still comes through.

[Keef]

In that case, I'm with you. Put a brick through their window! ;-)

[Asset]

Actually, I said streetlight because it is easier. It is actually a light that lights up a walkway between the back of my street and the estate behind. At around the same time as the council changed the lighting to the new fabulous floodlights they also decided to put railings and gates up so no one can actually walk down said walkway rendering the lights unnecessary.

I used to have those crappy solar garden lights but it is so bright in the garden now they don't come on!

[wee quinnie]

I noticed the whole prob with the light pollution the other night when I was walking up Lordship Lane - Foxtons of course, is the worst offender, however there are also the other estate agents with their giant tellies left on, and Somerfield et al, illuminating their interiors. Oh and of course at the moment, everyone has their stupid Xmas lights left on presumably ALL NIGHT, including, I am surprised to say, Health Matters!!

[Michael Palaeologus]

We walked past Foxtons last night and they did seem to have turned the main light off, although the huge TV screen in the window was left on.

[snorky]

If they persists in such anti social behaviour after polite requests, then some would suggest direct action that affect their cashflow may get their attention rather more quickly

not me of course I ghhasten to add m'lud

[Barry Rhode]

snorky Wrote:

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> If foxtons wont listen to reason, then they must

> be pushed into reconsidering their stance by

> whatever means possible.

I say we descend on the place with pitchforks and torches demanding at least one human sacrifice to satiate our blood lust

I hate light pollution and can't sleep with the faintest of light coming through the window but I would rather have well lit streets for the saftey of all than dark, uncomfortable, dangerous footways

I'm only guessing but it could be the powerful halogen light the council installed (mentioned above) may have come about as a request from other local residents

The sun rises at 4:30am in summer and I've never heard complaints about that - I sympathise but surely the answer is well lit streets and decent light "insulation"

As for Foxtons' continuing unecessary light pollution and energy wastage then my offer stills stand...

[dc]

re light pollution - there ought to be a law against it.

And lo and behold there is: The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/localenv/legislation/cnea/statnuisance.pdf