Parking in Tintagel Crescent

[amygemmell]

I have been intending to get in touch with someone to find some kind of help regarding the parking on my street, Tintagel crescent, for some time now. I have two children both aged under two and regularly spend up to 25 minutes at a time trying to park somewhere near my house. I can rarely park anywhere near my front door which is extremely stressful and unsafe when I have to carry one child and safely try and hurd another child along the pavement in the direction of our house. I can not even consider going food shopping as I have to stop in the road and hold up the traffic while I unload the bags before then driving off again to try and find a parking space with my children. It is becoming increasingly stressful for me and almost impossible to park even in my road or even on any of the neighbouring roads. Preparing to go out with any kind of baggage is impossible as by the time I have walked to my car with the children, we are all exhausted. While I accept that living in London means that we may not always get a parking space right outside the house, it seems slightly crazy that such a small street like ours has to accommodate local business people parking, commuters, school traffic and last of all, the people who actually live on the street! In an ideal world, myself and all of the other local residents would be thrilled if parking permits were introduced so that we can actually park somewhere on our street and discourage parents from driving to pick up and drop off there children- the road is barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other! At the moment, it is regularly chaos in the mornings and afternoons and unsafe for those of us who live here!

I would be thrilled if you were able to point me in the direction of finding some kind of help as it is becoming increasingly impossible to park anywhere near my own home!

[Coach Beth]

Get in touch with the headmistress of Goose Green School, she has been trying to work with parents and also the council to sort out the problem. She has held a consultation with parents about the problem of traffic at school pick up and drop off and there is over-whelming support amongst parents for the introduction of a voluntary one-way system at school drop of and pick up so traffic comes in one way and out the other which should improve the traffic flow. She has also been onto the council about them providing support in regards to providing traffic wardens at key times to discourage poor behaviour of car drivers. I'm sure she would welcome your imput - her contact details can be found on the school website http://www.goosegreenprimaryschool.org

[James Barber]

A public consultation on a Controlled Parking Zone covering Tintagel, Oxanian, Zenoria, Elsie, Melbourne 1-63 & 2-44, Derwent and similar streets the other side of Grove Vale will take place October/November. If people want a CPZ it would be created March 2012. Options about all day mon-fri or just 10-12. I did ask for option 11-12 but apparently it could be practically tricky to enforce. I'll keep trying if residents choose the two hour option.

I've asked for parking enforcement to help enforce parking restriction around Goose Green school as well as others to ensure pedestrian safety.

[James Barber]

The public consultation starts tomorrow with hand delivered consultation forms being delivered tomorrow Friday 14 October.

Two public exhibitions at Grove Vale library - Saturday 5 November 10-2pm & Weds 9 November 4-8pm.

Below are links where you can view and download information relating to the parking consultation.

Grove Vale CPZ webpage

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200140/parking_projects/2280/grove_vale_area/1

Grove Vale CPZ downloads (consultation document and initial design)

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/2877/grove_vale-controlled_parking_zone_study

Grove Vale CPZ online questionnaire (link not available until Friday 14 Oct)

www.southwark.gov.uk/consultations

A supplementary questionnaire will also be sent to residents in Elsie Road and Melbourne Grove who have a private driveway, on their preferred parking restriction across their dropped kerb. I've asked officers to expand this for the few on Melbourne Grove who also have private driveways and the one home on Zenoria Street.

THE CONSULTATION END FRIDAY 11 NOVEMBER 2011.

[Chener Books]

The consultation document says:

"However, in our experience, the introduction of parking

controls in one street often results in displacement parking

problems in adjacent streets, as commuters and other

motorists may move their cars to the nearest road where

parking is unrestricted. Consequently, we are not only asking

if you are in favour of the proposals now, but also, if you are

not in favour at the moment, whether you would change your

mind if the road next to yours became controlled."

The residents of Tell Grove and Matham Grove have been excluded from the "consultation area".

John K

[James Barber]

Yes, but where do you draw the line?

At this time the council has decided to fund an area either side of Grove Vale nearest to East Dulwich station.

I would have preferred to see the area consulted upon include Tell, Matham, Chesterfield, Ashbourne, Blackwater and Bassano on basis of oeprating one hour a day but insufficient money allocated. I found out what would have been required for a DIY parking pressure survey (the expensive up front research) and asked for volunteers from this forum but had sadly no only one taker and it would have required several.

[Chener Books]

"adjacent streets".

John K

[Penguin68]

but also, if you are not in favour at the moment, whether you would change your mind if the road next to yours became controlled

Sorry - but on the basis of this information - you are more likely to be against (not in favour) of the proposal if a street adjacent to yours becomes controlled, becuase that will shift the problem to you.

Basically - once you start, the controlled area will continue to spread until it is so wide that it would be too far to walk comfortably to ED station from outside it. I can see to the west the ED station zone reaching out to the Herne Hill station zone (and I am sure that North Dulwich will 'fall into line').

And a nice litle earner it will be for a council now constrained not to raise direct revenues through rises in council tax.

[peterstorm1985]

James, I was interested in this sentence: "A supplementary questionnaire will also be sent to residents in Elsie Road and Melbourne Grove who have a private driveway, on their preferred parking restriction across their dropped kerb."

What options are there for parking restrictions across the drop kerb? I thought it was just a matter of law that it is illegal to park in front of one of them. Am I missing something?

[ClareC]

Seems unfair to effectively move the problem area to adjacent roads.

It is a rubbish situation but the school and station have been there far longer than the residents effected. They chose to move there in full knowledge of the issues, people in adjacent roads will not have had that benefit.

[Vilmos]

Living so near to a school is bound to create parking problems anywhere in London.

This is one bugbear of living in the Capital and when I was working I frequently had to park at quite a distance from my home. Now I am retired I can at least keep an eye out for a space close to my home and get my car in there as soon as there is the chance.

If there is a controlled parking zone created in your street, then as others have have said, the traffic will simply overflow to surrounding streets. Then how long before we hear another 'stressed' mum complaining of all the things you are complaining about?

Bringing up kids? Been there, done that, and it doesn't get any easier. On the bright side, they will be grown and flown the nest before you know it and you will be left saying to yourself 'Where did all the years go'.

[Carrie]

James, Are you able to explain why Oglander Road appears to have been excluded from the consultation whilst Copleston Road and Ondine Road have been included in the consultation?

[prickle]

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James, I was interested in this sentence: "A

> supplementary questionnaire will also be sent to

> residents in Elsie Road and Melbourne Grove who

> have a private driveway, on their preferred

> parking restriction across their dropped kerb."

>

> What options are there for parking restrictions

> across the drop kerb? I thought it was just a

> matter of law that it is illegal to park in front

> of one of them. Am I missing something?

The consultation document says

Double yellow

lines have been proposed over all private driveways in

the area so that you can access your drive 24/7.

However, a supplementary questionnaire has been sent

to those residents with a private dropped kerb (leading

to off-street parking) to see if they would prefer a

parking bay or a yellow line in front of their drive.

Why go to the trouble of sending out additional questionnaire? Surely the fact that a dropped kerb exists means that the drive way will be used? Is this questionnaire to gauge general opinion or is it to find out what each individual house wants? James, please can you clarify?

[peterstorm1985]

What happens if you don't want double yellow lines (which could lead your own visitors to get ticketed) or a parking bay (which would tempt others to block you in)? What's wrong with the current system of advisory white lines in front of drop kerbs? They have no legal meaning but are helpful for those who don't otherwise seem to notice the drop kerb?

[James Barber]

Hi Peterstorm1985,

Please see attached questinoaiire about options for private drives. Hope you find it useful.

An extract states:

"

How does enforcement work?

The Council can enforce a dropped kerb by issuing a parking ticket and/or removing the vehicle only in the following circumstances:

? Most commonly, we enforce against vehicles that are parked next to a dropped kerb that has been lowered to help people to cross the road easily, these locations are often marked with tactile paving.

? Where the dropped kerb is used to access a driveway attached to an individual house we can enforce if we have been given permission of the owner/occupier. Currently the Council operates a scheme by which the owner/occupier can sign up with the Council to allow enforcement of their dropped kerb. Once agreed enforcement will take place at any time and without reference to the resident, who must not park across their own vehicle across their dropped kerb and they also will not be able to authorise others to park there as a parking ticket/removal could occur.

? Please note that if the dropped kerb accesses flats, a house split into flats or a business then currently the Council do not have the power to enforce.

"

I suspect the latter point would be resolve if all flats agreed to one form of enforcement or management committee did.

Hope this helps.

[James Barber]

Hi Vilmos,

A detailed parking survey was undertaken. It checked which cars stayed all day down to 1 hour granularity. This survey didn't suggest the parking pressures were school related but commuter related. East Dulwich station use has dramatically increased since the Congestion Charging Zone was implimented - a relatively recent change.

Hi ClareC,

It would definately be unfair to not ask residents whether they want a solution or not and 40 residents from the area have a made a point of formally contacting council officers to complain. I'm really not sure which way residents will go but the parking survey clearly showed huge pressures on parking during commuter hours. I've had many residents contact me saying they're very unhappy but or course the happy one's wouldn't raise it as an issue. And yes a risk some commuters wont change their habit except to park further from the station and walk. But as with any expanding circle the impact would be diluted over a much larger area. So all in all that would probably be fairer IF that's what residents choose.

Hi prickle,

Please take a look at the supplementary survey questinoaiires which explains the problem with double yellow lines and the two options residents with drives are being asked about.

[James Barber]

Hi Carrie,

These roads are in South Camberwell ward so partly decisions taken by councillors for this ward.

Partly where people have complained about parking pressures in the past and partly where a line had to be drawn as the parknig surveys and consultations are expensive and partly that oglander is one way towards Grove Vale and perhaps has less parking pressue compared to other neighbouring roads.

If the residents from roads being consulted do agree to Controlled Parking then you might want to see how things go and potentially badger the South Camberwell councillors for when your road will be consulted. Equally those commuters who will park just that much further away should in theory be spread over a much larger area.

[alachlan]

The document seems to infer that the purpose of the CPZ is to alleviate parking problems caused by people using the station.

In which case why isn't the actual boundary of a roughly consistent radius - it extends eastwards a fair way but not southerly - why is this?

I live on one of the adjacent streets so am concerned about the effect of parking pushing outwards.

However, I am for an all or nothing approach - either capture these streets for, say a 10 minute walk from the station or do nothing at all.

?125 for a permit is only a tank and half of fuel and if I had to pay it for 24/7 CPZ and ease of parking it would be worthwhile.

[James Barber]

I agree with you alachlan but that's not what the council administration proposed. But an all or nothing apporahc at this stage obviously mean doing nothing. Some residents are so upset with the stress they're currently under that the consultation should definately proceed in my view and take it from there.

[Carrie]

That was exactly my point Alachlan - it makes no sense for Oglander to be excluded from the consultation when roads further away from the station (Ondine, the north side of East Dulwich Road by the side of Goose Green) have been included

[alachlan]

Sounds like its causing/will cause a lot more stress for the majority of people on the margins here... thus quick extension. Ho hum, more performance targets hit, but that's the cynic in me.

On the costs of the permits - Southwark charge ?16 for the first visitor book, and ?32 for second book upwards. Why don't you apply a similar scheme for more than one car per residence, maybe on a higher multiple. Obviously this is not the primary discussion point here but perhaps that would discourage multi car ownership and reduce the burden on the limited space we have available on our streets, and surely contribute to the no doubt carbon / environmental targets that must be in place somewhere...

[peterstorm1985]

Well, I've just had a look at the supplementary survey questions for those with dropkerbs and I can see a few potential punch-ups.

Option A is a double yellow line across your driveway but that means that every visitor will need a permit and - more relevant to your neighbours - will take a precious space elsewhere in the road.

Option B is a white line across your driveway but the space is still shown to be a parking bay so you'll still need a permit for visitors, and the existence of the parking bay markings will encourage others to park there, blocking you in. Whilst this is breaking the law (parking next to dropkerb/preventing legal access) and I guess you could sue the perpetrators for any costs incurred (loss of income etc if you can't leave to go to work), the most immediate result will be both parties being really angry as it will look as if Southwark has condoned the action of blocking someone in.

Really, really, bad idea.

If I was being given the choice, I would have to choose Option A as I don't like being blocked in or getting into fights. That will immediately reduce the amount of parking available.

I suspect my road is similar to others in that neighbours commonly 'borrow' the space in front of our dropkerb when they have visitors or those who don't have off street parking and want to get closer to their house to drop off shopping etc. If it's an unfamiliar car they simply drop a note in, or knock on the door so we know who to ask to move a car if we go out.

If there is a double yellow they will have to find a proper space - but there simply won't be enough of them.

[mummypig]

I really like the 12-2 option, as per Herne Hill, as I'm sure the problems are commuter related. However, the fact that you can now pay remotely from your mobile phone probably reduces the effectiveness of these restrictions.

That said, I've now got to the stage where I would rather pay for the restrictions than spend 10 minutes on a weekday going dizzy driving around looking for a parking space. Also it will stop my selfish neighbours putting cones / bins / "skip on its way" notices outside their houses...

While we're at it, will the council paint individual parking bays in the roads? There must be at least 4 or 5 spaces "lost" on most days because people park nearly half a space away from each other.

[James Barber]

Hi mummypig,

As vehicles vary is size the council wouldn't mark the individual boxes for people to park in.

Hi Peterstorm1985,

I did;nt read it like that. IF residents want the council to enforce no parking outside their home then thats anyone parknig getting a ticket. If residents don't want that enforcement then they will get blocked in by non friends or family/ take pot luck.

Hi alachlan,

The council could charge differently for homes with 2nd or more parking permit requests. They;ve not chosne to do that but to be honest the stats I've been shown are that if commuter parknig is removed 2nd cars wouldn't be a problem.

[prickle]

I really like the 12-2 option, as per Herne Hill, as I'm sure the problems are commuter related. However, the fact that you can now pay remotely from your mobile phone probably reduces the effectiveness of these restrictions.

Does this mean that a commuter can park at 8am go to work and then pay for the restricted time 12-2 by mobile from work and then pick car up at 6pm? If that's the case then what is the point of having CPZ? Have I misunderstood something?

Also why does it cost so much to have visitor permits? Why does the first book cost ?16 and subsequent cost ?32 (that's ?3.20/visit!!) It seems like a tax on having visitors. Are some 'visitors' exempt?

Edited to add: Also why are we restricted to 100 permits/year?