Trains from P Rye to London Victoria - email to save them

[Medley]

Email Rail Minister Theresa Villiers now at [email protected] to get a better service from P Rye to Victoria from next year - to make up for the cutting of the South London Line.

The South London Line currently links London B and Victoria, but it's being chopped next year - victim of the remodelling of London B.

HOWEVER, there is a chance for some of the damage to be averted, if Southeastern trains could be stopped at Peckham Rye and then go to Victoria.

Click on the Southwark Rail Users Group website for more details and email addresses - towards the bottom of the page.

Cheers.

[TJMP]

I would urge people to support Medley's request on this. I have already sent an email to Theresa Villiers asking her to reconsider her previous position - as set out in the attached letter from last September addressed to my colleague Val Shawcross AM.

Tessa Jowell MP

[cidered]

Done.

I suggest others do the same.

[the-e-dealer]

Can they stop at nunhead as well please.

[drew]

Peckham Rye is a massive benefactor of the new rail changes, in terms of both volume of trains and number of new direct destinations (East London-City-Islington). I only wish places like ED could be so lucky!

The new East London extension (a more regular service) will take you up to Denmark Hill (1 stop: 2-3 minutes) and then you can change for the existing fast service from Kent on South Eastern to Victoria (direct: 9 minutes).

With the ELL extension, I personally believe this loop is a redundant line (not just due to LB changes) and the key is to ensure South Eastern can increase the regularity of stops to Denmark Hill from Kent.

Does anyone know if we can petition for this?

[TJMP]

drew Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Peckham Rye is a massive benefactor of the new rail changes, in terms of both volume of trains

> and number of new direct destinations (East London-City-Islington). I only wish places like ED

> could be so lucky!

>

> The new East London extension (a more regular service) will take you up to Denmark Hill (1 stop:

> 2-3 minutes) and then you can change for the existing fast service from Kent on South Eastern

> to Victoria (direct: 9 minutes).

>

> With the ELL extension, I personally believe this loop is a redundant line (not just due to LB

> changes) and the key is to ensure South Eastern can increase the regularity of stops to Denmark

> Hill from Kent.

>

> Does anyone know if we can petition for this?

Both Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill will suffer from a reduction in frequency of trains to Victoria to 2 trains per hour (from 4tph) - with service severely reduced in the evenings and at weekends. That is what this request to the Minister highlighted above by Medley is about.

Tessa Jowell (Office)

[drew]

Thanks Tessa.

I agree with more trains, but dont think an additional stop at Peckham or any other stops is necessary when DH is so close and the ELL will cover the gaps. I also imagine it may be difficult to increase trains through PR given the increased volumes with the new ELL extenstion.

I would prefer either PR or DH to be the main stop - not both. I just think that would be an easier proposition to push through than asking for more slow trains on the line.

[treehugger]

You can use this template:

Please do all you can to ensure that Southeastern service timetables will be amended to provide additional stopping services for Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye to Victoria. The loss of the South London Line is a terrible blow to the inhabitants of East Dulwich who have depended on this essential service for generations. Please do everything you can to safeguard and maintain our direct service to Victoria and to mitigate the much lamented loss of the South London Line.

[gm99]

Full details of the proposed changes are on the TfL website.

My reading of the details is that:

Between Peckham Rye/Denmark Hill and Victoria there are currently 5 trains an hour peak, and 4 off-peak.

By 2012 there will be 3 peak and 2 off-peak.

If I understand correctly, the plans are for 4 trains an hour eventually, to be achieved by stopping trains from Ashford/Ramsgate/Gillingham (the so-called 'Option 7' proposal).

Between P Rye and London Bridge it looks like there will be a reduction from 8 peak/6 off-peak trains to 6/4 in 2012, then rising again to 8/6 by 2015.

[Gep]

I think the current service (London Bridge to Victoria) is a lot more useful than the new ELLX. After all most people work into town!

I don't understand why the two services can not coexist. When they built the ELLX in Forest Hill they didn't stop the London Bridge to Victoria connection.

Also think of people in Wandsworth Rd. and Clapham. To go to London Bridge they will have to either change at Peckham Rye or change at Surrey Quays + Canada Water, which is silly.

Please sign the petition:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-our-south-london-line/signatures.html

[Jeremy]

I agree that the Victoria service is more useful than the London Overground for a lot of people. However, I've been told that the South London line being axed has nothing to do with the London Overground, apparently it's to make room for extra Thameslink services at London Bridge.

[Huguenot]

The problem with all these single issue campaigns is that they're not single issue at all.

Train services around South London are a web of interconnected services on an oversubscribed network. It is simply not possible to up one service without downing another.

I crave the day when intelligent politicians will try and provide their consitutents with a rounded, inclusive and constructive picture of the changes.

Both TJMP and James Barber have come on this forum with scare stories and rabble rousing claims about the local victims overlooked in favour of alien commuters from outside of London.

These are seen as vote winning strategies - and I'm largely convinced that both these political teams neither know, nor actually give a shit what they're talking about.

If you want to petition for anything, petition for a clear and insightful picture of the real issues, so you can make informed judgment.

I've previously tried to correct many unfounded claims on this thread.

Our society works better when we try and do what's best for everyone, instead of the needs of a minority.

[AlexC]

It would be good to get the facts re: the number of peak Denmark Hill to Victoria trains there will be over the next few years. I do seem to read differing information. It does seem there will be less frequent trains in the near future once the South London line is canned, but I then read it will then go up to more frequent trains than now in a few years time.....but then if these more frequent trains are London Overground trains going to Clapham Junction that's a bit moot to me. I'm only interesed in direct trains to Victoria, because that's what I use every day for my commute.

I just want to have the same level of frequency as now to Victoria as a mimimum, and if there are extra trains going to clapham junction in the future, that's a bonus. It would be good to get some sort of concrete forecast of train frequencies over the next 2-3 years as things stand now. I don't mind having less frequency during a remodelling of the local network if it means more direct trains in the future etc..

[cescau]

This was the email I sent before reading this feed:

'Dear Ms Villiers,

One of the things I really dislike about Labour is their stupidity. They alienate the people who keep the country running to the advantage of minority groups (from business leaders to people on benefits). What would be supremely foolish would be to take away from working people their mode of getting to and from work. If you elect to remove the stopping service for Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye to Victoria, all you will succeed in doing is ensuring that working people move out of the area. That would be a shame as not only would it halt some much needed regenerating in its tracks, it would return the area to the crime-ridden and impoverished ghetto that it has been known as for so long.

So I guess you have a choice. I appreciate everything comes down to money, and yes Labour totally screwed everything up, but returning Peckham to the Dark Ages seems to me rather a significant own goal for your Transport Ministry. I am confident the money can be found if we look hard enough (perhaps ask the Home Office who recently learnt the lesson of policing cutbacks only to bankrupt themselves on paying for the policing reaction to the riots...).'

Perhaps her response will be an accurate overview of exactly what service we will be getting in both the short and long term. I'll let you know.

[Zebedee Tring]

Cescau, I don't know what the so-called "stupidity of Labour" has to do with this issue. That is, unless you are being ironic or you are trying to appeal to Ms Villiers' more base political instincts in having a go at Labour. Of course you may yourself be adopting a political stance just for the hell of it or because you actually believe what you are saying. Either way I don't see how it helps the argument on this thread - it just serves to divide people who may be after the same thing, i.e. a better train service from the Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye area.

[titch juicy]

I don't see the problem- as someone above said- get the new overland to denmark hill and then change. Catch the connection right you'll still get from Peckham Rye to Victoria in 15 minutes.

Or is too much hassle to change trains?

[the-e-dealer]

Isnt Bozzo Johnson In charge of Transport in London?

[Torben Pieknik]

As Huguenot says there is a huge amount of political misinformation about this issue. My understanding is:

The South London Line removal is due to the Thameslink works at London Bridge. The works mean there will not be enough platform time/space for Thameslink and current service levels. The South London Line is the least used service into London Bridge across the day therefore the decision was taken (by Network Rail and DfT to axe the service).

Otions were put forward to mitigate the loss including a Victoria - Bellingham service which would replace services to Victoria via DH and PR but not London Bridge services.

TfL needed funding for the East London Line Phase two extension and proposed diverting the money from the proposed Victoria - Bellingham service to help with the cost, as DfT refused any further funding to support the scheme. A business case was put forward to DfT showing that the East London Line would benefit more people than Victoria Bellingham so offered better value. This argument was accepted by the DfT.

TfL then put forward a proposal to DfT offering further mitigation to the decision not to proceed with Victoria - Bellingham. I'm not sure where this has got too.

The decison to scrap the South London Line was taken by the last government, so Tessa Jowell's support now seems a bit late given she was in that government and presumably could have done something then.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Titch juicy, yes if you are traveling in peak hours, but not after around 7pm or early in the morning. The current service that runs in the evening via Catford and Nunhead is due to move back to the Blackfriars/City Thameslink line soon.

This means that during these times there will no longer be a Victoria service at all. I am supportive of Victoria-Dartford being extended and made more frequent or Victoria to either Bromley South or to Bellingham as I know that the ELL will not plug the gap for many people using Victoria station.

Renata