Food safety - get the app

[James Barber]

Most local councils including Southwark Council submit their food safety ratings into a system called Scores on the Doors.

Food inspectors visit premises at least every 6-36 months depending on risk and stars out of 5 are recorded in the system. More stars equal cleaner and safer practices.

You can get FREE Android and Apple apps to have access to this while on the move and help you decide whether you think a premises inspected hygiene is good enough for you and your family. I've found it eye opening. The more people use these scores the more businesses will take note and ensure they are clean. Some might even want to get reinspected.

[david_carnell]

I've never really understood this. Does/has anyone ever use this to decide on where to eat? Or avoided somewhere because of a low score. Surely the only criteria when deciding on where to eat is the food (and associates like cost and atmosphere).

For instance, Gourmet Burger Kitchen gets 5 stars. Frankly , you'd have to pay me to eat their shoddy burgers. Meanwhile the East Dulwich Deli only gets 1 star. No doubt unpasteurised French cheese is frowned upon by inspectors. Yet I will continue to eat their lovely products with a smile on my face.

[Jeremy]

Yes, it stands to reason that big chains will have more established food safety procedures. Doesn't mean I necessarily want to eat there.

[James Barber]

Hi david_carnell and Jeremy,

I sympathise with you but why can't all East Dulwich businesses achieve a better food safety/hygiene rating and still remain great places but with less risk of poisoning you?

The point is get the APP and then make informed choices.

Ask your favourite establishments why they scored badly if they did.

[Marmora Man]

Nanny state, nanny state James.

We are all qualified to judge food quality and don't need the council to do the job for us. I am in full agreement (unusually!) with D-C and Jeremy. Stop the surveys, cut the website and reduce the cost of the council. Our taste buds, eyes and noses will usually provideall the guidance needed.

I can recall staying at a very comfortable and friendly farmhouse B&B - which had just been told it must either set up a separate kitchen and breakfast room or close down by similarly concerned council staff. The council alleged that by eating my breakfast in a farmhouse kitchen where there was a dog basket, a dog roaming around and the tea towels drying on top of the Aga guests were "at risk". Absolute cobblers - it's my choice where I eat, not the councils.

They closed down - a great loss to walkers and climbers, as well as a financial loss to the farmer and his wife.

[peterstorm1985]

I've never felt sick after eating something from the ED Deli but definitely suffered after meals at establishments with higher ratings. Why would that be? Perhaps because it depends on exactly what the failing is and where in the process the trouble occurs. The star ratings are too simplistic for that.

I'm all for inspectors checking kitchens for contaminated/illegal meat but let it stop there.

Oh, and a few dogs hairs never did anyone any harm.

[James Barber]

Hi Marmora Man,

The example you've given is where you could see and judge food hygiene and what's inside fridges.

But your example is rare.

Vast majority of food establishments you can;t see if the practices are safe, kitchen clean, fridge sane. The Scores on the Doors is not perfect but it does encourage better practices if used with a modicum of common sense.

[Jeremy]

I wasn't suggesting that hygeine standards and inspections were a waste of time. Just echoing David's point that I don't think it should be the primary consideration when choosing a restaurant.

[david_carnell]

And without sounding rude, James, your suggestion of idly asking members of staff to explain their hygiene rating whilst dining is...... ambitious.

[Otta]

I'm torn here. Agree with MM that some of the regulations are ludicrous. Had a friend who run a pub in west norwood, and used to put out lovely hot snacks for people to enjoy (free) with their beer. She was threatened with closure because she was doing this out of her kitchen upstairs, not a commercial kitchen. Stupid!

However, however much I enjoyed the food somewhere, I think I'd be put off if I found out it was being prepared in some dirty minging kitchen, especially if I was paying a hefty price for it.

[Otto]

Having recently passed a catering level two certification, I might add that the risks to you will NOT be evident by taste or smell. Bacteria is undetectable to the consumer and good kitchen hygiene is a must!

[katie1997]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Most local councils including Southwark Council

> submit their food safety ratings into a system

> called Scores on the Doors.

James, I think this whole post is very misleading to say the least.

The Scores on the Doors system is not a definitive measure of judging food safety by any means. Its as bad as the recycling fiasco we have already. There have been many criticisms of this scheme (and others across the country,surprise surprise, all have different criteria to the other), including the complexity of the star ratings. What's the difference exactly for places that have 2 stars to those that have 3 stars? Why not a simple pass or fail? If there's got to be a system of measurement for standards, some consistency and fairness is needed.

The sort of people that need an app for this and who rely on these so-called scores fill me with despair. Can't people think for themselves anymore? Of course I'm not suggesting that places shouldn't be expected to have standards of cleanliness but if those across the industry don't have faith in this system, how can we be expected to?

I think there's anecdotal evidence of places getting marked down for something as ridiculous as not 'upgrading' their kitchen equipment which hasn't got a bearing on cleanliness.

Pretty sure there was a thread on here that showed how useless the 'results' actually were.

> Food inspectors visit premises at least every 6-36

> months depending on risk and stars out of 5 are

> recorded in the system. More stars equal cleaner

> and safer practices.

>

> You can get FREE Android and Apple apps to have

> access to this while on the move and help you

> decide whether you think a premises inspected

> hygiene is good enough for you and your family.

> I've found it eye opening. The more people use

> these scores the more businesses will take note

> and ensure they are clean. Some might even want to

> get reinspected.

[Otto]

Good points Katie.

[StraferJack]

Food posioning is absolutely brutal, and I'm keen to avoid

But given how much I eat in all of the badly rated restaurants, you would think there would be correlation between rating and illness, no?

That there isn't (for me or anyone in my group) suggests the ratings are not helpful.

[katie1997]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Food posioning is absolutely brutal, and I'm keen

> to avoid

>

> But given how much I eat in all of the badly rated

> restaurants, you would think there would be

> correlation between rating and illness, no?

>

> That there isn't (for me or anyone in my group)

> suggests the ratings are not helpful.

I'd go as far to suggest that the ratings are worse than simply 'not helpful'; they're downright misleading and thus have the potential to be very damaging to both customers and businesses alike.

(And thanks Otto)

[James Barber]

Hi Katie1997,

Not sure why you think they're unhelpful.

They indicate whether business is meeting food hygiene law - http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/faqsen#elem006

[peterstorm1985]

But James, a single number is absolutely meaningless. An establishment may be spotless but if the owner doesn't have a properly documented record of his practices he is going to get a bad rating. No paperwork is not the same as dangerous food. A dirty kitchen floor isn't dangerous (for the consumer) until food comes into contact with it. No contact and there's no stomach upset but you'll still get a bad rating if the inspector sees grime underfoot. A spotless kitchen may pass the test on the day of inspection but if the owner has a variable attitude to food sourcing the ingredients could be a killer in a 'perfect' establishment.

[James Barber]

Hi peterstorm1985,

The logical conclusion your suggesting is no inspections.

The Food Safety Agency believes it has evidence such inspections have improved public health.

[Marmora Man]

James,

Can the food standards agency prove the improvement in Public Health? I "believe" there is no correlation.

The logical extension of your argument is for every household to be inspected and for dinner party guests to check the scores on the doors before eating with friends.

[peterstorm1985]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi peterstorm1985,

> The logical conclusion your suggesting is no

> inspections.

> The Food Safety Agency believes it has evidence

> such inspections have improved public health.

The logical conclusion is that inspections should continue to highlight those establishments that are inherently dangerous - using condemned meat, cockroach infestation etc, but not for Southwark to expect us to all get excited that a fast food outlet selling deep fried artery clogging muck has a higher food safety rating than a shop or restaurant selling food that might actually have a few vitamins.

If you want a system that is actually of use then it needs to have more detail.

[Sporthuntor]

This is exactly the sort of nanny state project that has caused the financial mess our country is in. Of dubious benefit, of marginal importance, doubtless at considerable cost.

It really hacks me off when my hard-earned money is spent on stuff like this. We've got a huge public debt to pay off James, let's cut rubbish like this out.

[Alan Medic]

I've had many hairs of the dog over the years and felt much better afterwards.

I did a search on the now defunct Dos Amigos. I was interested in seeing their rating but nothing there. It's not too long ago someone reported here seeing a rat wandering around inside.

[peterstorm1985]

As long as the rat had washed its hands before touching the food, then its fine by me.