The parcel sorters are lying to us

[kitwhitfield]

Have you been getting forms through your door saying 'You were out so we couldn't deliver this parcel, come and pick it up' when you weren't actually out? We have, and we've been chasing up why.

The Sylvester Road sorting office is dealing with a backlog by sending out these forms as if they were letters, without actually trying to deliver the parcels at all. We caught a postman putting one of the forms through our door, and he didn't even have the parcel on him!

We went to complain, and the staff told us that their manager, Lee Cooper, had told them to do this in order to sort out a backlog. We complained to him a couple of days later - he was very surly and rude - and he told us that the order had come from the area manager, Tony Phelan.

I've sent a complaint to Postwatch, and I urge other customers to do the same. Because I work from home, I've been suspicious for some time of just how often I've had cards saying 'you were out' when I wasn't, and now I have the feeling that the office is in the habit of palming off the work of getting the parcels to their paying customers. They're lying to us and not giving us the service we pay for.

In passing, I'd like to say that the staff on Saturday were polite and helpful, but when we pointed out to Lee Cooper that his dishonest practices put additional stress on them - we were by no means the only cross customers they'd had that day - he said callously, 'They get paid to deal with complaints'. It's not the fault of the guys at the desk, but I feel bad for them having to work for someone with that attitude.

If this has happened to you, please join us in complaining as much as possible about it. It's becoming seriously inconvenient only getting parcels two times out of three, and the attitude seems so entrenched, based on Lee Cooper at least, that I don't think the problem will go away unless we make it as clear as possible how annoying it is.

[MrBen]

Yet another sad indictment of what the once great Royal Mail has become. I recall country childhood days in Scotland when the postie would drive out to us on his round and offer to collect and post our mail at the same time!

None of this suprises me at all. And what's worse, they are so large that complaining to them feels like attempting a run up a very fast "down" escalator. With one leg.

My local experience: caught posty putting a "You were out" notice through my door when I wasn't and he hadn't even rang the bell. When I pointed this out and explained I was quite clearly "in" he just said " Sorry but to be honest we just don't have the time to ring and wait on doorsteps anymore. Its easier if people just come to the depot and collect them".

Great! A DIY postal service!

Remind me to drive the next letter I want to send round to the recipient myself. It would be quicker, more reliable and would actually get there.

The best thing about the internet is it allows mass mobilisation of people against a common cause rather than having us all safely in our individual boxes. So let me know where to complain and I will do.

The Royal mail needs a massive restructure and pulled into the elctronic era if it wants to stay a viable enterprise.

Keep getting mail for other houses in the street too. Useless.

[mishadreams]

Hi Kitwhitfield, (is that Kit then?)

Do you have a way of complaning to someone rather than Lee or whome ever. He obviously doesn't give a damm so can we contact someone who does. I would say his manager but I suspect it goes deper than that. I too work from home and have lost count of the times one of these little calling cards have fluttered through my door. Can we flood the por guys mail with complaints? or maybe call a TV company to do an expose? I do hate being told I'm out, when I'm not ::o

cheers

[timtim]

k-w, I have long suspected it, but good on you for getting the evidence and confronting them with it!

The service is so bad in ED that I now have everything sent to my work in the City, or get packages via courier as they seem to do better than the Royal Mail.

I recently had 2 disputes open with eBay traders, both who assured me my items had been posted. I got compensation from PayPal, but lo and behold the items showed up a month or so later, postmarked with the date the eBay traders had advised me.

Then there were the Big Chill tickets this year - we had to collect them at the site because they never arrived. Apparently this was the case for everyone in SE22!

[kitwhitfield]

Well, I've written an angry letter to Postwatch, mentioning both Lee Cooper and Tony Phelan by name; I'll try to keep you posted on what answer I get. I'd suggest that everyone keeps an ear out for the post and complains whenever they get cards when they were in; I, from now on, am going to have to assume that every 'you were out' thing I get is a dodge unless I actually was out.

Though Lee Cooper was rude, the responsibility for the decision goes higher up the chain, and keeping after him personally wouldn't really achieve anything. However, I've had a journalist from South London Press contact me saying a piece she's doing comes out tomorrow, which talks about similar problems going on in Lambeth. All of which makes me think it's a general policy over a wide area, possibly even nationally, rather than the odd incompetent employee.

I'm going to wait to see what Postwatch says, and if their answer isn't satisfactory, consumer watchdogs would probably be the next step. I'm also wondering whether contacting our local MP might do some good...

[BJL]

kitwhitfield Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In passing, I'd like to say that the staff on

> Saturday were polite and helpful, but when we

> pointed out to Lee Cooper that his dishonest

> practices put additional stress on them - we were

> by no means the only cross customers they'd had

> that day - he said callously, 'They get paid to

> deal with complaints'. It's not the fault of the

> guys at the desk, but I feel bad for them having

> to work for someone with that attitude.

I have to collect parcels from Silvester Road frequently and have always found the desk staff (there seem to be two guys who alternate) very efficient and friendly.

[pearcesa]

I do believe that the postal problem does not just cover East Dulwich, my boyfriend lives in Streatham and a parcel he was waiting for just didn't arrive for over a month and then just appeared!

I am finding even the 'signed for' mail comes at random.

I've noticed these past few days we are getting a lot of post through our door, after a post drought for a while (yes I live on Colyton Road) but we are still getting the post for the people next door and they are getting our post too.

Can these postmen not read - or they just not interested?

I like other people on this forum am now having my mail sent to me at work, or am using another method (i.e courier) rather than rely on Parcel Farce!

[Nero]

The South London Press will do this story tomorrow, I've been told. Nero

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I suspect Lee Cooper cannot help it - it's probably in his genes.

[kford]

B'dum-tish

[kitwhitfield]

It's not my intention to insult Mr Cooper personally; he didn't handle the situation well, but neither did he create it. The worst you can say about him is that he's a cog in a machine who isn't making the situation better, but he's not the main culprit, and I don't think mocking him is constructive. It's a waste of energy that could be spent confronting the actual villains.

[Dodo1]

Sorry I too have to stick up for the guys at the Sorting Office. I can think if quite a few times when they've gone out of their way to help us.

[KT]

Not living in ED any more, but can't help keeping an eye on the Forum.....

Just to add, not only did we have problems with Royal Mail pushing the annoying little cards through when we were actually in, but we also had a number of Recorded (ie to be signed for) items simply pushed through our door while we were out. Not exactly the service the sender paid for....

[SimonM]

I'll second that - and presumably they're having to work that much harder now with people having to collect all these phantom deliveries?

[bluecanary]

Yes, the guys at Silvester Road are great, really cheerful and polite.

Now I don't work for the Royal Mail, nor have any connection with them, and believe me I am just as peeved as the rest of you regarding post arriving weeks after it was posted and 'ghost' parcel delveries, but quite what they are supposed to do to clear the backlog with the resources available to them, I'm not quite sure. Lets face it, if they employed armies of casuals we'd be no better off.

Maybe if they had sent a letter instead of a card advising that they were having trouble managing all the deliveries due to the strike backlog and explaining that it would be really helpful if you could collect your parcel from the sorting office in this instance as a temporary measure? Of course they would have to accept that some people are unable to collect from Silvester Road for a number of reasons, including the fact that as the sender paid the postage due in order to have the Royal Mail deliver the item, it would be reasonable to presume that they would do so.

Can you imagine what Christmas is going to be like if they don't sort this out now!

[kitwhitfield]

I did actually suggest to Lee Cooper that they sent cards out explaining the situation rather than lying; I wouldn't have minded at all picking up parcels if it wasn't for the deceit involved. He said angrily 'I'm not filling out two thousand forms!'. Everyone else in the office was excellent, but he was very clear it was my problem, not his. The other staff were very helpful.

The thing is, I've found today it's not just 'you were out' cards. An ebay seller I bought something from has just had that parcel returned, marked 'unable to deliver/refused'. I've been home all the time, and I never refused it. Based on my earlier experiences, I can only conclude that the sorters are not only clearing the backlog by sending out 'you were out' forms, but by not bothering to even notify customers about some parcel arrivals. Now if I want the parcel resent, I'll have to pay for postage twice.

I'm keeping up the complaints; the complaints line agree that this won't do, and say London in general is still having a problem.

[Michael Palaeologus]

They do seem to have a policy of sending things back if they have been hanging round for 2 weeks. So, a good approach for them is to not deliver it, not tell you its there and after 2 weeks send it back. Their problem thus being solved.

[Jamma]

I've had exactly this problem. A 'you were out' form on Saturday when I was in the kitchen and watched the postie walk up the path. Clearly he didn't have the parcel with him. Also can go 2 or 3 days without mail and then get a splurge of it. And we get plenty of mail for the couple over the road. I thought it was just that we had a crooked/lazy/inept postman, shame to hear it's the system that's to blame.

What's the point of a postal service that doesn't actually deliver things?

Still, at least now I know that it's not just me that's affected I'll go from here straight to the Postwatch website and lodge a complaint.

[kitwhitfield]

Has anyone else seen South London Press today? Page 7 talks about how Streatham hired a private company to work flat-out till the backlog was sorted. According to the article, they seem to have resolved the problem now.

I think we should insist we get the same thing done here. I asked the council but they said they couldn't help; is anyone interested in joining in campaigning to get it? I'm not quite sure how it would be done - some sort of petition, perhaps? - so any suggestions would be great.

[Jamma]

Contacting Tessa Jowell and pointing her to this thread might be a good place to start?

[pearcesa]

A petition sounds good, we do need to take some action to get this matter sorted once and for all!

[kitwhitfield]

I've e-mailed Tessa Jowell the following message:

Dear Tessa Jowell,

Since the Royal Mail strike ended, many of us in your constituency have still been failing to get parcels delivered. The sorting offices are using a variety of methods to deal with the backlog, all of which fall on the customer. These include two varieties of non-delivery:

- Putting 'you were out' cards through the letterbox when we're in, when the postmen don't actually have the parcels to deliver. Customers are being lied to and expected to pick up parcels they've paid to have sent to their door.

- Not delivering parcels at all so they return to senders.

In addition, hurried post means letters are frequently delivered to the wrong houses, postmen sometimes don't wait for signatures on registered parcels, and sometimes don't bother ringing the bell to make their rounds go faster.

I'd like to call your attention to the discussion on this forum:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,67406

- a thread you can also search under the title 'the parcel sorters are lying to us' - where you can hear the complaints of a lot of people who are not getting the service they paid for. We understand the strike has caused a backlog, but that is an industry dispute that should not penalise the customers.

We understand from today's South London Press (page 7) that the sorting office in Streatham, SW16, hired a private firm called CTC Couriers to clear the backlog, and we would like to request most strongly that a similar measure is taken here. The backlog is evidently massive, and chipping away at it with ordinary measures is only going to prolong the crisis.

Many of us have valuable parcels in transit and are concerned that we may never receive them; in addition, our valuable time is being wasted by being dragged out to collect parcels. The problem is urgent, and we would appreciate your urgent attention.

Thank you for considering this issue.

Yours sincerely,

Kit Whitfield

You can also contact her through this site:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/tessa_jowell/dulwich_and_west_norwood

The more of us contact her, the more likely she is to listen to our complaints, so everyone who's had a problem, please e-mail her telling her the problems you've had in your own words as soon as you have time.

[Keef]

I know this is a poor service, but at the moment when they probably do have a big back log, and they've got xmas coming up, I can understand them doing this, and getting people to collect their own parcels. Not saying it's right before my head gets bitten off, just that I can understand it.

What I've always found annoying is that you only have til about 12 on Saturday to get there! By the time you've dealt with your initial hangover, and cooked a fry up, you're cutting it very fine!

[ed_pete]

Check out this article in last weeks Guardian - the best line is that "Postal workers can post mail back into a pillar box if they can't finish their round"

[kitwhitfield]

Something I've found is that if you call the complaints line, about the first six times, you'll get put through to an answering machine and then automatically be cut off. If you persist enough times, they'll finally put you on hold and you'll eventually get to speak to somebody. As the article says, 'it's no mean feat to get through to customer services' (which somewhat belies the promise of their name, you'd think.)

Still, it's worth persisting, if the article is to be believed - the more complaints we manage to grapple through the system, the less they can pretend nothing's wrong. So if you get put through to an answerphone, keep trying: it's there to deter people from making complaints, but you can get past it given a little patience.