Broken sleep - seems like nothing works!!

[charlottekb]

Just the usual desperate warblings from a mum utterly down and fed up with being woken between 2-3 times a night. My lo is now 6 months old and there isn't really much change sleep wise from when she was new born. I'm completely at my witts end and it's taking all the joy out of it for me. She is ebf, and her brother who was formula fed fro

4 weeks was sleeping through from 13 weeks and is still a very good sleeper!! Obviously all the older generations in our family are saying that she needs to go on the bottle and eat eat eat. I'm feeling ready if not a bit sad to consider stopping breastfeeding. Anything to get a good nights sleep. Although mum friends I know say their lo's still sleep badly fully weaned and on the bottle. It doesn't help that due to lack of space baby is still in the same roo

And does seem easily disturbed. Plus every time she wakes I don't let her put up too much of a fight before I feed her. We tried letting her cry it out and it was awful - kept us all awake and woke my boy up!!!

I just wanted some advice really. Maybe re naps etc? Anything will be really helpful. I'm turning into an absolute misery in my quest for sleep. Help!!!

Thanks,

Charlotte x

[Ruth_Baldock]

Hi Charlotte,

ah sleep. I remember it well, god love it. My first was a demonic sleeper until almost a year, and he was mix fed from about 5mo. His last feed of the night was a bottle of formula and it didn't help his sleep, he was up every 90mins or so anyway.

Do you think your daughter is feeding overnight out of genuine hunger or habit? If ts hunger, have you tried dreamfeeding her at about 10/11?

We are in the same room as our 8wk old and we all definitely wake each other up. My toddler sleeps through her farting and snufflings so as a trial over the wkend we put her in with her brother. She only woke up once and settled a lot easier- so perhaps give it a go and your children might surprise you?

[chantelle]

my son only started sleeping more than 3-4 hour stretches when he was around 10 months. Possibly because by then he was BFing less and fully established on solids. That's also around the time when he FINALLY started taking a regular nap in the day. (around mid-day, for 2 hours) Before that he would just snooze at random times for no more than half an hour or so.

it's painful but I don't think there's much you can do. We tried everything- bottle or BF at 11pm, cry it out, etc.

We did do some crying it out around that 10 month stage and maybe that helped his good sleeping kick in but I think 6 months might be a bit too early to get results.

[Saffron]

If your little one will take a bottle of formula at night, you can then slowly fade the formula to water over a few weeks. This helps some babies to realize that nothing interesting is happening at night and to go back to sleep. After trying lots of different things, this type of behavioural 'fade' was the only thing we've had any success with. And at 20 months, my daughter is still such a rubbish sleeper that I've taken just to sleeping with her on a little futon in her room. Sigh. I feel your pain. xx

[BellendenBear]

Is baby sleeping in your room? As RB says, I think that putting baby in a different room can really help with sleep. Otherwise you do keep waking each other up and you might feed her when she's not hungry and a cycle develops of her needing to BF to settle herself. My 5m old 'sleeps through' in her own room but on the few occasions when I have had to share with her recently I have realised that she does wake up a couple of times each night and just shuffles around in the cot for a while before settling back to sleep.

Also, it is possible to exclusively breast feed without having to feed your baby frequently day and night. At the risk of being branded as Gina Ford's wicked step sister, breast feeding doesn't have to mean 'demand' feeding. You can still exclusively breast feed but do so in the way that you would formula feed a baby, ie gradually reducing the frequency of feeds so that they take bigger feeds less often.

I really hope things improve for you soon. Sleep deprivation is awful. Don't feel pressured to stop breast feeding if you don't want to, but if you do decide to stop to allow someone else to do a couple of night feeds then don't feel guilty either. 6 months is a long time.

Good luck

[mima08]

Hiya - my little one has been formula feed since 3months and did not sleep through properly (still does not often, at 7months). Among my friends we have all variations: bf babies sleeping like a dream (for a while), ff babies not sleeping, the reverse and all in between. Therefore the ff does not seem the magic answer that some people make it out to be.

I agree with Saffron, that a gentle fading out might be a solution.

Also, our LO moved out of our room and we noticed a BIG improvement. Plus, he has a few cuddly toys in bed, and I sometimes (maybe 50% of the time) hear him playing with them peacefully in the dark but then falling back to sleep (that is when there is no cold/teething/development leap...), so I leave him to it - however other babies get a bit too excited by having toys, it's a trial and error thing I guess.

On the nap front, I try to loosely follow the baby whisperer idea (max 2hrs sleep at a time at this age, but insisting on more than 30min) with semi positive results, so I am holding on to it for the moment.

I really hope it improves for you, sleep deprivation is the worst thing, you have all my sympathy! mx

[charlottekb]

Thanks all so much for your support/ ideas/time! Am at the stage of sleep deprivation when any act of kindness making me a bit weepy! I'm thinking food and a bit of mixed feeding is the way I'm gonna go. My son is a right shouter in the night - the drama of a middle of the night wee - so thinking he might wake her up which would be hell. Think I will have a flick through Gina and the baby whisperer too. Stuff I promised myself I wouldn't do this time around. Hey ho! Thanks again - you lovely peeps you xxx

[childsleepsolutions]

Hi Charlotte,

Poor you, sleep deprivation does feel like a form of torture! I agree with Ruth about the dreamfeed, this would at least help you discount hunger as the cause of further waking. Sleep problems are more common in ebf babies but I think this is more due to the comfort they get from the feed rather than the fact breastmilk is thought to be less filling, especially in regard to older babies. When you do breastfeed her in the night do you feed her until she is asleep? What about when you settle her to bed in the evening? If there is a 'prop' that she uses in order to settle and that prop requires your intervention then this is probably the cause of the night waking. If you think that is the case then eliminate the prop and choose a sleep training method (I would suggest something other than ferber controlled crying or cry it out for a 6 month old)to settle her and stick to it. Hope I don't sound like a know-all, I am a child sleep consultant. Don't worry, you are not alone or I wouldn't be in business! I hope this helps x Nicola

[Oxalis]

Sleep deprivation is miserable. I found "teach your child to sleep" (hamlyn) really helpful. It is written by two health visitors who run milpond sleep clinic - they run a sleep consultation service which is very pricey... so I just bought their book! (A friend has used the consultation service and found it fantastic - she was at the end of her tether and about to return to work. btw there is also a similar sleep consultation service called sleepthrough in st albans - telephone support/advice without the london price tag) Mainly I found the book useful for trying to work out what the problem was. I am a first time mum and was fairly clueless. My 6mo woke 2-3 times/night and wanted to start the day at 5am. They do suggest controlled crying but I didn't want to do this however, understanding more about night sleep/naps helped improve the situation without CC.

hope things get better for you soon

[Yak]

Agh, how miserable for you - all of you!Do you think your little one would take a bottle of EBM? I know I have far more milk in the morning than at night, so if your girl is genuinely hungry a dreamfeed might tank her up enough to go for longer between stretches.

When we introduced a dreamfeed at 10/11pm, the yaklet woke for about a week at the previous time at which he was waking for food (about 2pm) even though he wasn't hungry - it was just habit. I did a very gentle form of controlled crying (giving him a comfort feed of 20 secs or less standing over his cot while rocking him), reducing it to literally lifting him up and putting him down to nothing over that week. So if your little girl is just unable to settle once she reaches the end of a sleep cycle that might help get her used to going back to sleep on her own.

And BB I entirely agree about the "on demand" thing. I have no idea what the phrase really means and suspect it is capable of a whole number of different meanings depending on who you talk to....

[rfoxxi]

Oh Charlotte, I feel your pain- sleep deprivation really does affect you the whole day through and can have long term consequences on your physical and mental wellbeing. First of all remember it won't go on like this forever. Is she weaned? Is she a hungry baby? does she need to eat more? Breast fed babies should be having a breast feed in the middle of the night as the breasts are ready to supply at 3am (or there abouts!) and @Yak above said she found she had more milk in the morning. I fed my child a bottle before bed as she was very hungry and I had no breastfeeding support and was making it up as I went along! but the reason I have since found out I had loads of milk in the morning was because I wasn't giving a night /early morning feed. You can go without doing it as the milk supply will adjust (breasts are clever) but baby may still be needing that feed. that is why in other more traditional cultures babies co-sleep for a long time so they can feed and sleep straight away and the mother doesn't need to get out of bed to attend. Napping in the day is a difficult one to advise on because we all need different amounts of sleep! Have you tried bathing her at night,... then in a warm place and with warm oil, good organic oil for babies delicate skin you can get at a good health food store (ban- marie the oil don't heat up in microwave!) sit cross-legged on the bed or on the floor and with a towel over your knees put baby on her back and massage deeply with plenty of oil. you could try playing soft music in the background too. turn the lights down. then after a few minutes turn her on her front and slowly massage her back and legs. Babies love the positive relaxing touch and it may help take her into her body and relax a bit (always go clockwise on the tummy to go with her digestion). then give her a feed, offer both breasts if necessary and pre warm her bed with a warm hot water bottle- remove it before putting her in. a relaxed quiet environment throughout all this is important. you may find it helps you too- and maybe they'll be enough oil left over to have someone close massage your feet! If you incorporate this into your routine and it may take her a week or so to get used to it it may eventually help. Seek advice from an professional aromatherapist if you want to burn oils to assist her sleep- it may be very beneficial for both you and her. Most importantly take care of yourself too- if you are fraught and overtired then she will react to this. It would be more helpful for your family to take her for a while in the day for you to have a walk in the fresh air on your own or go for a professional massage or get your hair done...than tell you she needs a bottle! (i understand the pressures of everyone telling you what to do). What type of birth did she have?? - it may be worth looking at Cranio-Sacral Therapy as many parents report this helping in settling their child.

Good luck and best wishes, xxx

[Liu]

Hi Charlotte

It sounds as though YOU could do with a massage. If you could manage to get an hour or two to your self, I could visit your home and give you a holistic massage which may help relieve some of your stress and tension.

Just a thought.

L