Update - Harris School pupils fighting in the street

[dulwichbloke]

15 or so pupils from Harris were gathered in the street near me on Friday afternoon for some sort of (apparently) pre-arranged fight between 2 of them. They proceeded to get into a fairly brutal fight in the middle of the road while the others cheered them from the side-lines. I am planning on reporting this to staff at Harris and was wondering whether anyone had any experience of contacting the school on something like this and could suggest who might be best to speak to (i.e. someone who might take it reasonably seriously). Thanks

Update - I thought I would post something by way of update to say that the School did indeed take this seriously and not only responded very quickly to my contacting them, but dealt with the matter in a timely and efficient manner. The HT and safer schools liaison also helpfully explained to me what they had/were doing to address the issue with the individuals concerned). I thought it only fair to mention this by way of update, so that any parents of children at the school can be assured that it was dealt with effectively and in a very professional manner.

[DuncanW]

A brutal fight in the street should be reported immediately to the police - 999. Did you do that?

[dulwichbloke]

Yes, of course I did. By the time the van and car load of police arrived they had moved on - the Police went off looking for them (but I suspect not for long, as it was a busy time of day).

[Heber P&F]

.

[kristymac1]

I would report it directly to the head - my understanding is that Harris (as would most secondary schools I'm sure) takes this sort of behavior VERY seriously.

[Monkey]

I?d call the school and ask to speak to the head. I think his name is Peter Groves. You could raise it with the board of governors too.

[dulwichbloke]

Thanks. I'll try the H/T and I've just found an email address for the Safer Schools Police Contact for Harris (I couldn't find that before my OP), so I'll copy him.

[wonderwoman]

Do you mean Harris Boys or Harris Peckham. Both have police liaison officers the websites have details under staff list. My guess is they would have a pretty good idea who the pupils are as word spreads easily.

[dulwichbloke]

Harris Boys. I have very clear photos of the pupils concerned so they can't fail to identify them.

[Cora]

Well done for getting photos - it is one of big pluses of mobile phones in my opinion..

Harris will take it very seriously from what I've heard.

[tash b]

My son goes There and yes mr groves and pc Marcus will take it very seriously, I?m surprised no teachers turned up they follow the boys some distance a lot of the time to avoid these situations.

[singalto]

Well done taking photos.. Hopefully the boys will now be dealt with..

[DuncanW]

Sounds like you did all the right things. The reason I asked the question is, would the police not automatically contact the school?

dulwichbloke Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, of course I did. By the time the van and car

> load of police arrived they had moved on - the

> Police went off looking for them (but I suspect

> not for long, as it was a busy time of day).

[shelley 7229]

Boys were fighting in Ferris rd. Just over a week ago. Around 30 boys. Reported to school and pc Marcus.

[bodsier]

What would the consequences be for under 18s fighting? Would they get a criminal record?

[Angelina]

not likely, no.

They might get a warning /first offence.

Although it would depend on any previous trouble and the extent of the actual situation.

[rendelharris]

bodsier Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What would the consequences be for under 18s

> fighting? Would they get a criminal record?

They would likely, at worst, for fighting without knives, get a youth rehabilitation order, which is regarded as "spent" six months after the end of the order. And unless anyone was seriously hurt they're most likely to get a youth caution, which is "spent" as soon as issued.

[JohnL]

Is this just your classic school scrap then with everybody clustering round to watch (and once someone goes down it's over) or is it worse.

[Mick Mac]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is this just your classic school scrap then with

> everybody clustering round to watch (and once

> someone goes down it's over) or is it worse.

Yes - initially looked a bit heavy handed to get the police involved, to me. But then with knife crime so prevalent, best to do so.

Assuming it was just a fight, suggestions of a criminal record are laughable.

[dulwichbloke]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes - initially looked a bit heavy handed to get

> the police involved, to me. But then with knife

> crime so prevalent, best to do so.

>

> Assuming it was just a fight, suggestions of a

> criminal record are laughable.

The Police were only called because one boy was knocked over twice by punches in the space of about a minute, the second time hitting his head (loudly) on the kerb. It wasn't stopping, so I was concerned someone might get properly injured if it carried on.

As for criminal convictions/records, I never raised that as a possibility (and I don't think it is). I would have thought it is now a School matter (together with the Safer Schools PC liaison). Now it's over, what I am hoping is that those concerned are discouraged from having serious punch-ups in my street. While some might like to describe it (almost sentimentally) as "just your classic school scrap", my young children don't need to be frightened by seeing violence like that on their doorstep, nor do they need to witness 15 (to them, very big) kids shouting, swearing and being aggressive towards each other. Indeed, several passing school kids (who were not involved) looked positively terrified by it.

So, no, it was a rather nasty fight and very unpleasant to see, but nothing like as serious as a street robbery or GBH.

[rendelharris]

"Just a fight" at a school I briefly taught at resulted in one boy hitting his head on a wall after being punched, ending up in a long coma with permanent cognitive damage, and with his assailant going into youth custody. So my advice would be, if you don't feel qualified to break it up yourself (and in most cases, especially nowadays, it's probably inadvisable), do call the police, you might stop several lives being ruined. Pre-arranged fights outside school aren't the same as schoolyard larks and scraps, they're a serious business and need to be taken seriously by the public, the police and, if needs be, the courts. If nothing else, if kids don't learn this is a serious business now, they'll carry this behaviour into adulthood, only with higher stakes and heavier weapons.

Sorry, pompous I know but I do feel quite strongly it shouldn't be seen as "just kids" - I've seen firsthand how this stuff can quickly escalate into very serious shit indeed.

[JohnL]

dulwichbloke Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yes - initially looked a bit heavy handed to

> get

> > the police involved, to me. But then with knife

> > crime so prevalent, best to do so.

> >

> > Assuming it was just a fight, suggestions of a

> > criminal record are laughable.

>

> The Police were only called because one boy was

> knocked over twice by punches in the space of

> about a minute, the second time hitting his head

> (loudly) on the kerb. It wasn't stopping, so I was

> concerned someone might get properly injured if it

> carried on.

>

> As for criminal convictions/records, I never

> raised that as a possibility (and I don't think it

> is). I would have thought it is now a School

> matter (together with the Safer Schools PC

> liaison). Now it's over, what I am hoping is that

> those concerned are discouraged from having

> serious punch-ups in my street. While some might

> like to describe it (almost sentimentally) as

> "just your classic school scrap", my young

> children don't need to be frightened by seeing

> violence like that on their doorstep, nor do they

> need to witness 15 (to them, very big) kids

> shouting, swearing and being aggressive towards

> each other. Indeed, several passing school kids

> (who were not involved) looked positively

> terrified by it.

>

> So, no, it was a rather nasty fight and very

> unpleasant to see, but nothing like as serious as

> a street robbery or GBH.

School scraps stopped when one went down in my memory (and others would stop it if it didn't) - and they were normally at the back of a school field (so softer landing)

[bodsier]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Just a fight" at a school I briefly taught at

> resulted in one boy hitting his head on a wall

> after being punched, ending up in a long coma with

> permanent cognitive damage, and with his assailant

> going into youth custody. So my advice would be,

> if you don't feel qualified to break it up

> yourself (and in most cases, especially nowadays,

> it's probably inadvisable), do call the police,

> you might stop several lives being ruined.

> Pre-arranged fights outside school aren't the same

> as schoolyard larks and scraps, they're a serious

> business and need to be taken seriously by the

> public, the police and, if needs be, the courts.

> If nothing else, if kids don't learn this is a

> serious business now, they'll carry this behaviour

> into adulthood, only with higher stakes and

> heavier weapons.

>

> Sorry, pompous I know but I do feel quite strongly

> it shouldn't be seen as "just kids" - I've seen

> firsthand how this stuff can quickly escalate into

> very serious shit indeed.

That's why I asked the question Mic mac, and didn't assume anything........the OP Described it as 'brutal' not at all laughable is it.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I hate the 'boys will be boys', 'just a bit of a scrap' mentality. It causes so much damage to boys and to society generally. I think we often take violence far too lightly.

[Angelina]

It's so easy to escalate and it's lucky that no one was seriously hurt.

The school should take appropriate action and well done to the one who called the police. I would have done so too.