reporting verbally abusive comments on social networks

[malleymoo]

Anyone had any experience of successfully managing to get a proper response from MSN/hotmail when trying to report verbally abusive content. Over a week ago I was checking my daughters msn/hotmail page and spotted that someone fom her last school, had made some really awful comments to one of her close friends. As well as using really nasty language he had also wished some pretty awful stuff on her. Unfortunately I dont have any contact with the parents of the boy who made the comments or else i would have spoken to them about it, but I was able to tell the parents of the girl who the comments were made about. They arent very technological and struggled to report the comment so have since deleted the service from their computer.

I agreed to report the comment in the hope that it could be removed so no-one else would see it but i now seem to be stuck in hell. every day fo a week there has been a new email from microsoft customer support. Each email seems to be asking for some of the same infomation like the URL - which i have now given 5 times along with a new request each day without the sense we are any further forward now been asked to do a sceen shot - dont know how to do it tried suggestions on google without success. Also been asked to say the time posted but it only says the date not the time. Grrrrrr

It does worry me how difficult this process has been- any suggestions ? any orgainisations who might be able to give parents tips on how to manage this. How on earth is a young person supposed to do this? I am probably going to ban my daughter from using this for the foseeable future at least but I was reluctant to delete her account until i had provided all the necessary info-

[Huguenot]

It's difficult to be sure without knowing your daughter's age, but I'm not sure that banning her from using the internet is the right solution for four reasons:

Firstly it punishes her for other children's bad behaviour, secondly it socially cuts her off from her friends, thirdly it won't remove the offending comments and finally it'll do nothing to lower her exposure to bullying - which she'll come across every day in the playground.

You wouldn't stop your daughter from going to school because there's a potty-mouthed boy there, because it would do more harm than good. Likewise, so long as you are supportive, her experience with bullies is a part of growing up and most kids get over it fine.

Try pursuing justice through the school?

I'm afraid that most internet companies just aren't capable of addressing this problem easily. The reason why these internet service are free to you is because they have very few staff, and can just about be supported by advertising.

Try some of the children's charities or anti-bullying hotlines, if they still exist?

[binary_star]

Social networks are increasingly taking a hard line on bullying and depending on their age, this could have a very serious outcome for the boys, see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6390477.stm

It sounds like MSN are taking this seriously but are having trouble in locating the specific content? Is there anyone that is a bit more tech-savvy than you that could direct them to it or who could get the screenshots? Although they may exist, I don't know of any charities or organisations that could do this for you, what about a friend, neighbour or younger relative even?

Good luck with it.

[KidKruger]

I'd pursue trying to find out who the parents are to ensure they find out and have the chance to deal with it.

What about the police - isn't there a bullying hotline ? I thought something like that was set-up a couple of years ago and includes non-physical bullying and intimidation.

[Huggers]

A couple of years ago, my daughter received some abusive emails from a boy. I replied to them as me her mother, with copies to his parents. He got the fright of his life. I got a letter of apology from the boy who was gated for a month. I think it was apt intervention and that was the end of it.

You know it was a boy from her last school, inform that school, write a letter.

It was easy in our case because I was able to track him down through mutual friends but othewise I would have taken it to the school too- even if it was only my child's school. Even when stuff is 'out of school hours' it's important for a school to have your written record as then they can put together a picture if there are other complaints. When parents do not intervene it is all child heresay and no one can act. You want to establish a paper trail that a school can refer to in the future.

There is press coverage at the moment of a court case involving an abusive internet troll and he has just been jailed- so when in doubt, contact the police. They have the computer technology to track down the culprit.

[ianr]

> Each email seems to be asking for some of the same infomation like the URL - which i have now given 5 times along with a new request each day without

> the sense we are any further forward now been asked to do a sceen shot - dont know how to do it tried suggestions on google without success.

As binary_star says: it may actually be that it is difficult to locate in a dynamically changing page - just as when Google returns the first page of some board or similar as a hit, but the actual article isn't on the top page.

If you don't have anyone nearer to you to ask, if you feel like PM'ing me the URL and some of the target content you're talking about, and the approximate date of posting, I'd be happy to have a look to see if the location can be better specified, and could certainly do a screen shot for you if I find it - all in confidence, of course.

[DJKillaQueen]

I echo what others are saying. The social network is only a means for the bullies...they can be directly dealt with via the school or Police in the same way as they would be had they made the same comments face to face. Try those avenues.

[Sue]

Bullying also happens on forums like this one, and is often quite subtle.

However over time a pattern often emerges.

Young people are more vulnerable to the effects of bullying I guess, and less equipped to deal with it, but I think grown adults deliberately targeting others to bully is foul.

I used to run a bullying and harassment helpline, and I would like to think/hope that bullies do not realise the profoundly stressful impact they can have on their victims.

[DJKillaQueen]

It's just one of those things. Bullies have always existed and in many forms. I do think though that that forums and SN sites make it easy for people to bully and say things who would be normally too cowardly to do it face to face as well....and because a written comment is always there (unless removed by a moderator or the author themsleves), it's impact can be much more longer lasting on the person affected.

I think most of us, rightly so, have a zero tolerance of bullying, but as Sue says, how do we help those who are not able to fight or speak up for themselves? That's where schools, Police (usually the SNT) and special organisations can play a very important role.

[Loz]

And I must say, not helped when major sports stars like a certain female tennis player displayed full-on bullying behaviour the other night and got a derisory slap on the wrist for it. It's a shame, she could - and should - be such a good role model.

[Sue]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I do think though that

> that forums and SN sites make it easy for people

> to bully and say things who would be normally too

> cowardly to do it face to face as well....

xxxxx

On social networking sites, of course, people generally use their own names, so at least those who are bullied know who they are being bullied by.

Many bullies on forums choose to hide behind pseudonyms, which is particularly cowardly in my opinion. If you want to say something nasty to someone, at least have the decency to reveal who you are.

[DJKillaQueen]

I don't think there's anything wrong with psuedonyms...and most people that use them, do so in forums to protect privacy, and that makes sense. If someone is asking for ideas regarding a holiday they are are going to take in a public forum, the last thing they want is for any lurking burglar to know who they are for example.

And at least with a forum or a chat room you can log off and not be losing anything if you never log in again. With social networking sites you can block people too.....so there are ways to remove bullying via those means from your life, whereas if the person bullying is a work or a school collegue (or someone local), that you have to face everyday, then some other action is needed.

[Sue]

Just because you use your real name does not mean that everybody knows where you live.

[Loz]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just because you use your real name does not mean that everybody knows where you live.

I reckon, if I wanted to, I could find out the address of most people if I knew they were from East Dulwich. There is lots of information out there.

I didn't even have your surname, Sue, but about two minutes searching gives me your name, address, phone number, school, university and the knowledge that you have a strange attraction to barking and you have a round window on your front door.

Mind you, you are very open about your information and were easy to search.

[Sue]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Just because you use your real name does not

> mean that everybody knows where you live.

>

> I reckon, if I wanted to, I could find out the

> address of most people if I knew they were from

> East Dulwich. There is lots of information out

> there.

>

> I didn't even have your surname, Sue, but about

> two minutes searching gives me your name, address,

> phone number, school, university and the knowledge

> that you have a strange attraction to barking and

> you have a round window on your front door.

>

> Mind you, you are very open about your information

> and were easy to search.

xxxxxx

You found my surname on the Goose website and then looked me up on facebook, no?!

Oh well, I have nothing to hide whatsoever - my fondness for barking is common knowledge since I do it in public (and teach it to small children) :))

ETA: I like confusing dogs (much as I love them) :))

[Loz]

Not quite, though your website was key! And yes, although I did get to facebook in the end, that didn't give me all the actually useful info like address and phone number.

But, the point is, the less info you release online the better. And the safer. You don't need much info on someone to start ID theft. Or to stalk.

For instance, I am on facebook, but any info is strictly locked down to friends only. And I take that approach to all info - both online and real life. I use 'Mailinator' regularly when I need a temporary email address for things like site registration. Places like Currys, etc that want your home address 'for warranty purposes' every time you buy something like a camera or USB stick or whatever get short shrift with me.

[Sue]

Fair enough, maybe we should start another thread on the particular issue of security.

My point was really that some people hide behind pseudonyms on forums in order to make nasty comments, in the belief that their real identity won't be discovered by the recipient of the comments.

And usually, I guess, that's the case.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree with Loz about all the issues around security and maybe a thread on that might be useful. The Police can usually trace anyone by their IP address if there's a problem and indeed Admin did have the help of a phone company to warn a person who recently kept opening multiple accounts on here and was randomly posting nonsense and pming people. So it's a mistaken belief, that a psuedonym will protect someone who's intent is to bully or harass or otherwise.

[malleymoo]

Thank you all for your comments.

Huguenot I would normally agree totally with what you are saying about not banning it and certainly can't ban the internet itself as it is so helpful in so many ways... but... given how difficult it has been trying to get some sense from MSN/hotmail. A week later a really quite nasty comment is still on view for all their friends to see, makes me reluctant to allow my daughter to use it as all you want to know is if there is a problem it can be sorted! When my daughter said that particular lad was always like that at school and was always getting into bother , must admit there was a pretty hefty lecture about friendship and quality of friends being more important than quantity!

I really dont want the lad involved to get into serious trouble as I know life is really not good for him in so many ways ( lots of pretty serious issues at home!), but a warning about his behaviour and the offending message being removed would be great! Bit like what happens on here:))

Ianr thanks for offer but had one more go at emailing them latest set of responses but may well come back to you re screen shot.... normally not to bad on computers but this had stumped me!

The security issue and how much info is available at a click of a button is fairly mind blowing !

Sue loved your comments

"Oh well, I have nothing to hide whatsoever - my fondness for barking is common knowledge since I do it in public (and teach it to small children)

ETA: I like confusing dogs (much as I love them")

Love the idea that you are teaching this to small children... is this the next step on from ballet lessons and monkey music!

[Sue]

malleymoo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue loved your comments

> "Oh well, I have nothing to hide whatsoever - my

> fondness for barking is common knowledge since I

> do it in public (and teach it to small children)

>

>

> ETA: I like confusing dogs (much as I love them")

>

>

> Love the idea that you are teaching this to small

> children... is this the next step on from ballet

> lessons and monkey music!

xxxxxx

Much more useful :))

[mockney piers]

From interviewee on BBC about recent spate of trollings.

"But disagreements on the forum all too easily turned to abuse. Finding out that respected professionals in their mid-fifties could post in that way was an eye opener. I've since discovered that forums have a habit of turning sour as it only takes a minority to skew them. As a format they've lost their innocence."

I know that many people feel the balance of free speech to censorship is too far in the direction of the latter on this forum, but he's right, it only takes a few to subvert and recast the general tone of a forum and ultimately spoil then ruin it for the majority of users.

Given those difficulties I think it's about right here.

I'd refute Sue's assertion that there's bullying on here, we're acutely sensitive to such matters and respond actively to reports and PMs.

As far as the OP is concerned, if MSN aren't responding (and they have a huuuuuge user base so it might just be a case of a very big backlog) I'd really take it up with the child and parents in question, at least if you think it has any chance of achieving anything given the situation.

Tricky!

[Jeremy]

I've never noticed any bullying on here either. There are some people who are over-sensitive, some who are rude, others who insist on having the last word, and a small number who join just to wind people up. But not bullies.

[mockney piers]

Exactly how I'd view it Jeremy, spot on!

[Sue]

As I said, it's often subtle.

Depends on your definition of bullying.

The Office of Children and Young People?s Services? Anti-Bullying Strategy defines bullying as a persistent, deliberate attempt to hurt or humiliate someone.

[david_carnell]

others who insist on having the last word