Jump to content

Recommended Posts

parked in road next to ruskin park with proper paid parking voucher from machine displayed inside windscreen. It is an extraordinarily windy day.

Lambeth parking have just given me a parking ticket after the tailwind of hurricane Katia blew my parking voucher off from inside my windscreen, through closed windows, and onto the seat where the warden photographed it. He was waiting by his bike. I was well inside my paid for time. How do I deal with this? advice please.

Link to comment
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/19512-lambeth-zealout-wardens/
Share on other sites

Sounds as though it possibly blew off from air passing through vents from under the engine. I'd write to them and tell them you have a valid paid parking voucher covering the time during which the penalty notice was served, that the warden could see this, but issued the ticket anyway and ask what kind of common sense their wardens have! If they persist...go to court...can't see any magistrate ruling in their favour tbh (and they will know this). If they won't back down...contact Britain's biggest selling newspapaer 'The Sun'....they love a story like this and embarrass the heck out of them.

No don't send them the original receipt.....send them a photocopy. If they need to see the real item take it to them in person, let them photocopy it, and take it back afterwards. These guys are trying to fine you even though you paid for parking....I wouldn't trust them with an original anything!


And just edited to add, as anyone who has ever appealed a parking ticket will tell you, the process is made deliberately difficult imo to discourage any but the most determined from following it through.

Stick with it - I appealed to a different but equally frustrating and vexatious traffic fine. Eventually, having pursued all avenues of appeal the council gave way 2 days before me appearing in person before an independent appeals tribunal.


It is as DJKQ says - they make it deliberately difficult, time consuming and boring to pursue the appeal - but it does feel good when the righteous win.

Be careful. If the face of the ticket/voucher is not on display they are quite entitled to fine you. Read the wording on the ticket/voucher/machine.


Also if you have more than one ticket on display they will also give you a fine as 'it is not their job to look for a valid ticket'.

The only thing a migistrate will care about though is if the parking was paid for....and given that the ticket had been original correctly displayed but blown off the dashboard, I would be very suprised if the council had a case. As MM's example shows, they will leave it till the last minute but they won't want to go to court with this one.
It's entirely possible that a gush of strong wind came up through the air heating/ conditioning vents on the dashboard. When you turn on the air conditioning in your car it sucks in air from under the engine. If you leave the AC in on position when you turn the engine off (as most of us do) the the vent remains open. I'm sure this is what happened and Lambeth will have to accept that.
thanks all! my car is so ancient it doesnt actually have air conditioning but it does have a couple of slits in the windscreen facia shelf bit. I have used all your arguments in my appeal with copies of voucher and penalty notice. I have offered to provide originals 'when I go to court'. I do wish my friend I was visiting hadnt rushed out and called him a rude lady part word. Its just she says lots of her visitors have had fines even when they have bought vouchers for various obscure technicalities.
My work colleague and I both got parking tickets in Camberwell, outside our work. As essential car users we have 'All Southwark' permits which allow us to park in most resident parking bays in the borough. Both permits were valid, another colleague took photos of the permits in the cars and we sent these to the Parking Shop with copies of the permits. Tickets were withdrawn as we found out that the warden did not know the code for 'all southwark' and thought it related to a specific street only.
  • 2 weeks later...
You were possibly lucky the ticket ended face up and in a still obvious place. On the PATAS key cases page, the only determination listed under 'Fluttering tickets' includes two cases in each of which the local regulations were held to apply strict liability on the motorist to display tickets as specified. The closer of the two is Carr (1960207612): pay-and-display ticket left on windscreen; ticket fell face down onto dashboard so that details were invisible; appeal dismissed.

ah but the ticket landed face down! But as supporting evidence I was able to send them a meteogical link to a high wind warning posted that very day - it was Hurricane Katia day- and the winds were very high. It was a freak occurance with wind displacing voucher from windscreen. And they knew I would go to court too.

The displacement of the voucher was an act of nature we could not forsee. Am I expected, having parked my car and paid for the voucher, and correctly displayed it, to return to the car every five minutes to inspect whether such an occurance has in fact occurred? Is the fine for not paying/trying to cheat Lambeth or is the fine for failing to display even when you started off displaying?

Huggers, I don't understand what you're so up in arms about. Are you expected, having parked your car and paid for the voucher, and correctly displayed it, to return to the car every five minutes to inspect whether such an occurance has in fact occurred?


As you say the ticket was face down and on the seat. Is the warden expected to use x-ray vision to read the reverse of any piece of paper he sees on a car seat on the offchance it could be a parking voucher and that it bears the correct time?


You suggest he may have deliberately knocked it off the windscreen (rather invalidating your hurricane rationale) and your friend called him a cunt.


He was doing his job. Turns out on this occasion you did have a valid ticket, and on appeal the fine was dropped. But how on earth was he supposed to know that? I'll never understand why otherwise rational and lovely people get so mental about parking wardens.

> Is the fine for not paying/trying to cheat Lambeth or is the fine for failing to display even when you started off displaying?


From the determination I referred to:


"In these cases, there are a number of factual issues that I will have to determine. But the

issue of principle that I have to consider is, to what extent can vehicle owners be liable for

penalties which, after they have properly paid for parking time, arise from matters entirely

outside their control?" (p2)

.....

"Does Section 46 give an authority the power to provide by regulation for the display of a pay

and display voucher (and for the manner of display), and for the forbidding of parking at any

time at a meter when that meter is showing out of order, so that, irrespective of fault, the

person concerned may be liable for a criminal penalty?


"As none of the specific provisions appears to be relevant, the Councils are forced to rely upon

the general words of Section 46. Section 46 is not, of course, as specific in its enabling

provisions as Section 35. However, certainly with regard to the display of a pay and display

voucher, there can be no reason of public policy as to why such regulations ought not to be

made in respect of on-street parking: because, as I have indicated above, such regulations

can clearly be made in respect of off-street parking pursuant to Section 35, and there is no

difference in principle between off- and on-street parking in this regard. Further, all of the

Councils who appeared in these cases said that strict liability was essential for the proper

regulation of the use of pay and display parking places, because of the ease with which the

regulations can potentially be abused: it is very easy for a person who receives a PCN for

failing to pay and display a voucher to say, after the event, that payment was made and then

to produce a voucher which may or may not have been purchased at that time for that vehicle.

Each of the Councils said that, in many cases, it would be impossible for them to determine

whether the owner was telling the truth: and that is why, the Councils said, it was important to

have strict liability for this contravention. Without such strict liability the proper regulation of

the use of such places would be impossible, in practice. I consider these submissions are

compelling." (p8)

Rosie I did tell her off for doing that and in no way condoned her-and I had to calm her down-she had become hysterical because it was the fourth time a friend had been ticketed in her road when they had bought a voucher. Each time some extraordinary event had rendered it invalid and she was therefore very paranoid. Unfortunately Lambeth has a history of dastardly deeds.


On my letter today it said it was facedown- so i have to take their word for it. But the warden himself said that it was my voucher and it was on the seat- at the time- so he must have had some means of recognising it and I thought when he pointed it out that it was face up, but there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then and I honestly can't say which way it was.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Trossachs definitely have one! 
    • A A day-school for girls and a boarding school for boys (even with, by the late '90s, a tiny cadre of girls) are very different places.  Though there are some similarities. I think all schools, for instance, have similar "rules", much as they all nail up notices about "potential" and "achievement" and keeping to the left on the stairs. The private schools go a little further, banging on about "serving the public", as they have since they were set up (either to supply the colonies with District Commissioners, Brigadiers and Missionaries, or the provinces with railway engineers), so they've got the language and rituals down nicely. Which, i suppose, is what visitors and day-pupils expect, and are expected, to see. A boarding school, outside the cloistered hours of lesson-times, once the day-pupils and teaching staff have been sent packing, the gates and chapel safely locked and the brochures put away, becomes a much less ambassadorial place. That's largely because they're filled with several hundred bored, tired, self-supervised adolescents condemned to spend the night together in the flickering, dripping bowels of its ancient buildings, most of which were designed only to impress from the outside, the comfort of their occupants being secondary to the glory of whatever piratical benefactor had, in a last-ditch attempt to sway the judgement of their god, chucked a little of their ill-gotten at the alleged improvement of the better class of urchin. Those adolescents may, to the curious eyes of the outer world, seem privileged but, in that moment, they cannot access any outer world (at least pre-1996 or thereabouts). Their whole existence, for months at a time, takes place in uniformity behind those gates where money, should they have any to hand, cannot purchase better food or warmer clothing. In that peculiar world, there is no difference between the seventh son of a murderous sheikh, the darling child of a ball-bearing magnate, the umpteenth Viscount Smethwick, or the offspring of some hapless Foreign Office drone who's got themselves posted to Minsk. They are egalitarian, in that sense, but that's as far as it goes. In any place where rank and priviilege mean nothing, other measures will evolve, which is why even the best-intentioned of committees will, from time to time, spawn its cliques and launch heated disputes over archaic matters that, in any other context, would have long been forgotten. The same is true of the boarding school which, over the dismal centuries, has developed a certain culture all its own, with a language indended to pass all understanding and attitiudes and practices to match. This is unsurprising as every new intake will, being young and disoriented, eagerly mimic their seniors, and so also learn those words and attitudes and practices which, miserably or otherwise, will more accurately reflect the weight of history than the Guardian's style-guide and, to contemporary eyes and ears, seem outlandish, beastly and deplorably wicked. Which, of course, it all is. But however much we might regret it, and urge headteachers to get up on Sundays and preach about how we should all be tolerant, not kill anyone unnecessarily, and take pity on the oiks, it won't make the blindest bit of difference. William Golding may, according to psychologists, have overstated his case but I doubt that many 20th Century boarders would agree with them. Instead, they might look to Shakespeare, who cheerfully exploits differences of sex and race and belief and ability to arm his bullies, murderers, fraudsters and tyrants and remains celebrated to this day,  Admittedly, this is mostly opinion, borne only of my own regrettable experience and, because I had that experience and heard those words (though, being naive and small-townish, i didn't understand them till much later) and saw and suffered a heap of brutishness*, that might make my opinion both unfair and biased.  If so, then I can only say it's the least that those institutions deserve. Sure, the schools themselves don't willingly foster that culture, which is wholly contrary to everything in the brochures, but there's not much they can do about it without posting staff permanently in corridors and dormitories and washrooms, which would, I'd suggest, create a whole other set of problems, not least financial. So, like any other business, they take care of the money and keep aloof from the rest. That, to my mind, is the problem. They've turned something into a business that really shouldn't be a business. Education is one thing, raising a child is another, and limited-liability corporations, however charitable, tend not to make the best parents. And so, in retrospect, I'm inclined not to blame the students either (though, for years after, I eagerly read the my Old School magazine, my heart doing a little dance at every black-edged announcement of a yachting tragedy, avalanche or coup). They get chucked into this swamp where they have to learn to fend for themselves and so many, naturally, will behave like predators in an attempt to fit in. Not all, certainly. Some will keep their heads down and hope not to be noticed while others, if they have a particular talent, might find that it protects them. But that leaves more than enough to keep the toxic culture alive, and it is no surprise at all that when they emerge they appear damaged to the outside world. For that's exactly what they are. They might, and sometimes do, improve once returned to the normal stream of life if given time and support, and that's good. But the damage lasts, all the same, and isn't a reason to vote for them. * Not, if it helps to disappoint any lawyers, at Dulwich, though there's nothing in the allegations that I didn't instantly recognise, 
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...