Increase in Aircraft Noise

[david_on_grove]

Has anyone else noticed a significant increase in aircraft noise since Saturday (Sept 3rd)? They seem to be flying lower and they're more frequent than anything we've experienced in the last 12 to 18 months.

Does anyone know where I can find information on flight path changes?

Many thanks...

David

[Dodo1]

i thought that this morning! It sounded as if it was going to land on us.

[david_on_grove]

Oh I know! I appreciate that many parts of London are subject to aircraft noise, but this increase in noise and traffic over our area was quite sudden, and I cannot seem to find an explanation?

[dbboy]

hope the following thread helps.

http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5019

[david_on_grove]

Cheers for that link... It seems many have noticed the upsurge!

[ianr]

David, it would be interesting to see some day-on-day comparisons of height of overpass: same flight numbers and times, but pre- and post-3 September.

I certainly find the perceived noise quite variable, depending presumably on flight paths, wind, cloud cover, air pressure, and who knows what other variables, but hadn't noticed anything to make me think of a recent step-change. The only thing I had noted recently was hearing the occasional propeller driven plane, even two in a day, after not noticing any for a long time; but I don't thinks that's significant.

PS: Sorry, I've assumed, re statistic gathering, that you're talking about Heathrow bound planes, when you might, mainly or additionally, be talking about London City bound flights.

[david_on_grove]

Ianr, thanks for the reply. I assume it's Heathrow bound traffic as they're mostly very large planes (747s etc) when observing from the street. The statistics would definitely be interesting. There's certainly many variables with regards to aircraft audibility, but it's been nearly 1 week now of frequent low flying noise that I'd never noticed to this extent before. Just some Heathrow provided information (more so than tracking an aircraft that was overhead 1 hr prior) would be helpful at providing some insight and understanding!

[EDmummy]

Funnily enough I was thinking they were not as loud the last few mornings (they usually wake me at around 4.30am) and in fact heard a few that sounded like they had changed their approach as they turned towards Heathrow. Or, perhaps my hearing is going!

[ianr]

> I assume it's Heathrow bound traffic as they're mostly very large planes (747s etc) when observing from the street.

And presumably not North bound, as would be the case for City planes.

> The statistics would definitely be interesting.

Well, for you to collate, I think, if you want to make any case or check your own hypothesis. :) The data is there online, as mentioned in, for example, the Se23 thread, or here several times. I reported my own collation of an hour or two's single-day traffic here a few years ago. I also remember wondering, but not enquiring at the time about, whether the data owners might be happy about passing on segments of their raw data rather than having us abstract snippets of it from the visualisations in their online system.

[bloonoo]

Haven't heard any but last night looking out the window i noticed every few minutes a low jumbo going over our house - not noticed it before so didn't know if it was new or just me being unobvservant

[The Minkey]

I run my digi TV from a set top ariel and the picture on some channels is unwatchable lately as it breaks up whenever an aircraft passes overhead. I also noticed a noise increase from aircraft but prior to Sept 3rd.

[Penguin68]

The sound of aircraft will be enhanced/ reduced depending on the local atmospheric conditions, so maybe its the weather, not the increase in planes/ decrease in flying heights that is making the apparent noise louder (which I haven't myself noticed).

The ambient sound will also make a difference on perceived noise - which is why planes seem noiser at night, when there is less traffic noise for them to compete with.

[i*Rate]

Hi david_on_grove,

I've commented before on this issue on the Forum and someone made the remark that aircraft just seemed louder and more frequent. Then someone else sent in a graph showing flights to/from Heathrow since 1985 - they were up by 140,000/annum!

I'm really getting fed up with the noise now, as I work at home, and during the warmer months I do like to have some time in the garden listening to bees buzzing and birds singing or maybe just get a bit of peace and quiet. I just don't have that now and it was definitely quieter when I moved her in the 80s.

I've checked out the flights and frequency and it all seems to start around 6.00am or earlier and goes on until 10.30pm or 11.00; so really the CAA just allows us about seven hours to sleep. The flights get to be continuous now, as one passes over the next appears - less than two mins between them so really no silence inbetween.

Do we have any rights in the matter, or could we get some compensation (Ha Ha)? Will this put people off moving to ED; I've had enough of it? I'm thinking of taking up my case with Southwark's Noise Pollution section - I let you all know how I get on.

Fasten your seat belts.

Regards,

[stephent]

Also, feel free to reply to the current government consultation on, among other things, aircraft noise.

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/2011-09/

[Moos]

The flights start well before 6.

[benmorg]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The sound of aircraft will be enhanced/ reduced

> depending on the local atmospheric conditions, so

> maybe its the weather

Absolutely - when it's warm we open the windows. There are fewer complaints in winter.

[bigdavid]

They also start earlier because daylight saving changes in schedules in summer. Heathrow has the strictest noise regulations in the world, to the point where aircraft and engine manufacturers design exclusively to satisfy them.

Don't worry, our nimby-ism, compounded by privatisation of the airports will soon mean that Amsterdam and Frankfurt will soon supercede London as the air hub of Europe, and we can all wring our hands at the loss of yet another industry.

At least our house prices are okay.

[stephent]

That's OK, the German nimbys are planning a complete night flight ban at Frankfurt.

If they really want a decent aviation industry in the UK they should build a brand new airport with far more runways in a sensible location, rather than trying to bodge a few more flights into an airport that runs at 98% capacity.

[Pantalaimon]

Hi, not sure if this is the right thread, but we are finding the current noise level from low flying planes unbearable, to the point of wanting to sell our flat and move!

We have only been here since May this year, and have noticed a steady increase in plane noise since, this weekend has been a nightmare. Does anyone know the best way to voice our concerns, we really love East Dulwich but honestly we are losing patience!

[maxtedc]

I've lived in East Dulwich for many years. It ebbs and flows - I remember another thread earlier in the year when the flight path changed and there were no planes going over at all http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,713746,714076

It all comes down to wind direction.

[i*Rate]

Pantalaimon,

I am sorry to learn that you have just moved here and now the aircraft noise is upsetting you. I have lived in ED for 31 years now and I am absolutely certain that the noise is now at it's worse - it drives me potty now. Someone also posted some statics on this thread which prove this too. I spent time working at home now and I can tell you that on most days flights start at around 6.30am, or earlier, continue at a rate of 30-40/hour, every hour,(less than 2mins each),until around 10.30pm. So we now have about 15 hours of pretty much continuous noise most days.

What can we do - not a lot - there is a campaign called HACAN, so look for their website? Southwark can do nothing and told me to contact the CAA. Sadly, we have a situation in which private airlines can carry on making money for themselves whilst we have no right to silence during the day. If you have garden in this area now, it's pointless trying to sit out there in the summer, unless you take up plane spotting and become a bit of an Anorak (like me)!

Cheers.

[SteveUK1978]

I used to live in West Hampstead and it was much worse. You would get the night flights heading to Asia / Australia taking off over north London at around 10pm - 11pm. Friends who live in Twickenham get the same planes we do over ED, but by that stage the wheels are down and they are even lower, louder. Sadly it is just a fact of life in London.

I certainly don't think it is the fault of "private airlines looking to make money", that's not a very sensible comment I would argue.

There is increasing noise (pardon the pun) for a brand new Airpot in the Thames estruary - got to be the answer.

[i*Rate]

SteveUK1978,

I am sorry that I might have made my point about aircraft noise in an unclear way.

What I was trying to express is the fact that if an air ambulance, rushing to save someone's life, wakes me up at 6.30 on a dark winter's morning then I am willing to accept that this is a necessary inconvenience. On the other hand, should airlines consider the impact that their business makes on peoples lives? Since I moved her, I don't remember any airlines or the CAA warning us in ED that they would increase flights making the noise constant, most days of the year. It seems that we just don't count in the scheme of things, but maybe this new airport would be their answer to helping us all.

Cheers, with respect.

[SteveUK1978]

The number of flights landing at Heathrow (the main culprit for the noise over ED's) has actually dropped significantly since the mid-2000's

http://www.baa.com/assets/Internet/BAA%20Airports/Downloads/Static%20files/10yrRecordOfStatistics_2001-2010_BAA.pdf

Must be changes in flight paths that is causing the issue.

[SCSB79]

It's not really that bad though is it, people just like to moan.

Traffic noise is probably worse.

If you sit down and really think about it, the noise probably doesn't bother you that much... but you just want to moan about it anyway.