Speeding on Barry Road

[jamesmcash]

Hi all

Thanks for everyone?s comments on this. I hope that when the consultation comes around we are able to find a resolution to the speeding on Barry Road that is acceptable to everyone.

I now have some more information regarding East Dulwich Road, as raised by peckhamry. Unlike for Barry Road, where there is clear evidence of speeding, the council?s data does not suggest that average speeds exceed the threshold required for intervention. The council is forced to prioritise roads based on this data so it is unlikely that I will be able to get any traffic calming measures introduced in the immediate future. However, following my enquiries, the council has committed to monitoring the situation on East Dulwich Road and I have asked for updates with new data when they are available.

Best wishes

James

[MCMC]

Unbelievable!

Just came to check up on my post and hear a huge bang outside!

Massive crash on Barry Road. Three cars damaged. Someone needs to act.

(see attached image)

[Passiflora]

I've wondered for years about Barry Road not having some kind of speed restrictions and I don't even live there but visit a friend nearby. So many side roads pulling out on to Barry Road in either direction with cars (and buses) speeding along!

Sorry to hear about the crash tonight!

[Pugwash]

Which junction is this - looks at though could be Underhill?

The Barry Area Residents' Association is hopefully meeting some of the local councillors on Tuesday evening to discuss this matter with a view to having a public meeting.

[solar]

One of the cars is a minicab. It's currently parked opposite the Clock House.

[jamesmcash]

Oh no, how terrible. I will make sure it is properly reported so that action can be taken.

Looking forward to discussing this with Barry Area Residents Association this evening.

Best wishes

James

[rch]

Good to hear that there are discussions happening after all these years!

I would suggest that you all read the council recommendations for Barry Road in advance, which are incorporated into this link that BanJo sent me (click the underlined word "here" for the 8.8 megabite download):-

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/borough-wide-20mph-speed-limit

I know the engineer who did this assessment, I also liaised with him on part of the Lordship Lane assessment (which was done separately, but I don't think it's published?)... he's a good guy.

Ironically, the council are recommending the same concept of pedestrian islands and junction build outs that I referred to above, which I think is the best way forwards if suitable compromises can be found (for instance, enough space for cycles to clear balanced against loss of car parking). I have spent a lot of time studying these techniques with highway engineers, so I am happy to try to talk people through this.

Frustratingly, it looks like this document was made available on the council internet site almost a year ago but, because the communication is so bad, no one appears to know about this... I think Barry Road was included after I asked the Community Roadwatch officers to flag it as a priority.

My guess is that some of the Lordship Lane recommendations will be incorporated into the reinstatement of Lordship after the Thames Water sewer works (which are going to be discussed at the next DCC meeting), so it would be nice to see these in advance, too.

[MCMC]

jamesmcash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh no, how terrible. I will make sure it is

> properly reported so that action can be taken.

>

> Looking forward to discussing this with Barry Area

> Residents Association this evening.

>

> Best wishes

> James

Hi James,

Is this an open meeting tonight? Can anyone attend it?

Thanks

MCMC

[Pugwash]

This is the BARA Committee Meeting and the aim is to discuss with Cllrs as to next actions etc and to arrange an open/public meeting to alert/advise/etc local residents. Once we have a plan - we will advertise in EDF.

[Pugwash]

Following the BARA Committee Meeting with Cllr James McAsh - we agreed on the following.

Southwark wish to have public consultation over their proposals for reducing speed and improving safety in Barry Road and this is likely to take place in September. James will liaise with the appropriate department and obtain possible dates to enable the meeting to take place at the East Dulwich Community Centre in Darrell Road. BARA will assist with publicity for the event.

In the interim period, having been in discussion with the Police Road Watch Team, it is suggested that further speed checks be made to clarify whether speeding has become more prominent since the last speed checks were carried out.

For this to happen we need to have volunteers to work with the Road Watch Team, one volunteer to aim the speed gun and the other to jot down the speeds. It is suggested that 1 -2 hours will be required. The Road Watch Team have advised that if you are a Barry Road resident, you should not 'zap' near your home i.e. if you live at the Lordship Lane end, it is suggested you operate near Goodrich (this is in case you zap an immediate neighbour!)

If you are interested in being part of the Road Watch Team - please pm me with possible times/dates/days you are available so that we can co ordinate with police officers concerned. BARA are aware that usually 'serious' car crashes get reported to the council and police and are interested in hearing as to whether people have experienced 'near misses' and minor bumps in Barry Road. If so, whereabouts in the road and time of day. It was mentioned that with the increased use of Barry Road by school children attending, St. Anthony's, Heber, Goodrich, the new Harris school in Whatley Road, and Harris Boys Forest Hill/Friern Roads, that this could be a factor of increased car usage in the area and speeding.

Please remember that the Dulwich Community Council Meeting will be held at Dulwich Library on Tuesday 17th July 7pm

[MarkT]

What about removing the white lines. These reports are of 2 years ago:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35480736

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/plan-remove-white-lines-roads-divides-opinion-norfolk

[ruffers]

Can I ask what the level of recorded accident / injury etc is on this road please?

Does anyone know?

[rch]

If you go to this link and click on "here", you can see all the criteria and proposals for Barry Road and nine other roads cited for action:-

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/borough-wide-20mph-speed-limit

There were 15 collisions on Barry in the 36 months between July 2013 and June 2016, but only one of those was a speed related collision.

It's useful to read the whole document in order to understand the parameters. Intriguingly, Barry Road is listed as the highest priority for action out of the listed ten roads across the borough, although it doesn't have the highest speeding issues (but it's got other more complex logistical issues). I suspect this will be discussed at a future DCC meeting so that engineers can attend and explain.

Glad to see that our GG councillors are assisting residents but, as the ward boundaries have now changed, I'm guessing that the Dulwich Hill councillors will need to join in in tandem?

[MarkT]

Robin,

are there any records since 2016? eg:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1908473,1908473#msg-1908473

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1941239,1942032#msg-1942032

Both of those in 2018 would seem to be speed related

MarkT

[MarkT]

Adding to my last post, this one makes 3 this year

MarkT

"Re: Speeding on Barry Roadattachment

Posted by MCMC July 09, 10:09PM

Unbelievable!

Just came to check up on my post and hear a huge bang outside!

Massive crash on Barry Road. Three cars damaged. Someone needs to act.

(see attached image)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 09, 10:10pm by MCMC.

Attachments: Webp.net-compress-image.jpg (51.4KB)"

[rch]

Hi Mark... I don't think that they have done any formal speed measurements since the Quietway assessment at the top of Barry a while ago (last year?). I asked 3 times at the DCC if we could have those Quietway recorded measurements, but never got a coherent response.

The Community Road Watch sessions established a pattern, which the police could verify, which then inspired the council to do the assessment as per the link above. The problem in the Dulwich area is that everyone complains of speeding, when technically there isn't much down here, so the authorities don't pay attention.

In my experience, once a precedent is set and it's noted that a road has traffic travelling up to a certain speed (anything over 24mph in a 20mph limit is technically an offense, although they tend to pay more attention over 27mph so that it can't be disputed in court), there really isn't a point to keep measuring. So that's what we set out to establish in our sessions, although it was hard to find definite sections of speeding because it was all so patchy with the bus stops.

When we started recording speeds past 40mph during the Road Watch sessions, it definitely got police attention, because that can be fined even in a 30mph zone. But because of the buses and the junction lights, the speeding sections are patchy, which makes it more difficult to deal with.

But I'm not sure if the accidents in the threads you posted were actually speed related as Barry is such a complicated road.

Hope this make sense, it's a bit hard to type out.

BTW, the police always claimed that the junction of Barry Road and Lordship was the most dangerous junction in the Dulwich area, but the funding has never been allocated to reconfigure it. Ironically, this reconfiguration forms a major part of the proposed Quietway scheme (in the same way that the Dulwich Village reconfiguration was part of that Quietway scheme), which is funded by City Hall and therefore doesn't come out of local council funding...

[Trousaprezz]

I work in ED and often witness selfish and dangerous driving.

This morning 7am I was driving up Barry Road having turned in from Peckham Rye. Ahead of me was a Mercedes on a ?62 plate who repeatedly attempted to overtake the vehicle in front. He/she didn?t manage it before I turned off at Underhill Road but was still looking to.

This was trumped by a woman in a Land Rover of some description on an ?18 plate (I find it difficult to tell the new Land Rover / Range Rover models apart as they?re all so bloody vulgar) at 11.30am at the traffic lights by M&S. A bus and another vehicle behind it had stopped as the lights were, erm, red, so she simply pulled out and overtook them both, timing it so that as the lights turned green she could cut back across in front of the bus and roar off in the direction of the library.

I could on on...I see incidents of this nature every day and am thankful but at the same time a little perplexed that there isn?t a fatality or life changing injury accident every few days.

Of course, this sort of driving behaviour is not limited to the environs of East Dulwich; what I struggle to understand or accept is the assumption that because a car is big/new/expensive/whatever that the occupant?s time is more important than anyone else?s. Will any amount of road calming change this mindset?

[Pugwash]

So far, we have only had offers from 2 people to do the speed watch in Barry Road. I will wait until next Monday before I talk to the Road Watch police again to fix a date or time.

Still require details of any near misses or minor bumps as this could sway the outcomes of the public consultation.

[craigyboy71]

Speeding on Barry Road is a long-standing issue, but the Council won't do anything due to the buses that use the street. I am surprised there haven't been more accidents.

I live on Upland Road, off Barry Road, which is a busy cut through to Lordship Lane. I'm amazed at the speeds cars go down this street, especially as the existing "speed" bumps are so shallow they have no need to slow down!

[MarkT]

"but the Council won't do anything due to the buses that use the street."

Is this true?

Ivydale Road has buses and pinch points with alternating one-way.

Red Post Hill has buses and islands so traffic has to slalom and alternate one-way.

MarkT

[rch]

Some comments...

Whether the council can control traffic on a bus route depends on whether the road is legally controlled by TfL or the council. I can't remember which Barry is (I used to know all of this ages ago).

The slalom effect at Red Post Hill was one of the first experiments that I worked on with the council, as the previous speed humps were causing serious property damage in this location. The ped islands with cycle clearance create road parking restrictions, but this proposal got through public consultation as safety was considered more important.

The good news is that the regulations have changed over the years and the distance between the ped islands has been lengthened, so fewer ped islands are needed for Barry, which will reduce the car parking issues.

If you look at the proposal in the link I posted above, the diagram is clear.

The link text also makes it clear that most of the collisions on Barry are caused bad driving, not speeding. There are some definite speeding sections, but the logistics of Barry are complicated with the bus stops and side roads... which is why the ped island and raised junction proposals make sense.

In general, I totally agree with what Trousaprezz wrote above... as a pedestrian, I see this behaviour every day while walking down Lordship, Melbourne, and other roads. Speeding is very difficult on these roads, which is why the council is opting for logistical measures rather than ramming in speed humps everywhere.

There may need to be some tweeks made in some of these proposals, but the engineer clearly understands the dynamic of the local area (in my opinion).

[Pugwash]

The Road Watch Team will be doing a speed check in Barry Road at Upland Road Junction from 10 -12 noon on Wednesday 22nd August. A further one will be undertaken in September in the early evening.

Those volunteers wishing to take part need to pm me with their details and if they want to do the whole 2 hours or part of the time.

[Pugwash]

Just to update - Road Watch police team, with local residents and councillors will be taking part in speed watch tomorrow at 2 different sites in Barry Road - one at the Upland Road Junction and the other will be revealed tomorrow at 10 am.

[joom]

They could also do with doing one at about 6-6.30 in the morning - there is a motorbike around that time that tears down the road, wakes me up most weekday mornings. I?d be happy to help, will pm my details.

[Pugwash]

Next speed watch will be mid to late September around 6 pm. I do not think the Road Watch Teams come on duty at 6 am - they seem to work from 8 am onwards.

We had 2 teams - one at Upland/Barry and the other at Barry/Etherow. Considerable number going over 25 mph .