Speeding on Barry Road

[wulfhound]

Southwark Council, like all the others, is absolutely strapped for cash. I'd be all in favour of having speeding fines on Barry Road and don't understand why automatic fines aren't doled out more often. Is the registration number recognition equipment really expensive or something? I've had a few fines for straying into the occasional yellow junction box or bus lane in Camberwell/Crystal Palace/Old Kent Road etc.

Councils get the fines from (relatively harmless) parking offences. Speeding fines go straight to the Treasury, not even the police get a look in. Am not sure who gets the red light camera fines - probably TfL as they operate all traffic lights IIRC. So guess which gets enforced to the letter and which gets ignored.

[h3+]

That is interesting because I would have liked all the speeding cars to subsidise my council tax

[wulfhound]

Same. It's almost like the Government aren't really interested in tackling speeding and are happy with the status quo.

[Pugwash]

I try and keep to the 20mph speed but am constantly hooted and shouted at by other motorists as they overtake me at around 40 mph. I try not to come out of side roads to cross or enter into Barry Road as the road visibility is poor and you have to inch out in the road to get a clear view. Barry Road is covered by 2 wards Goose Green and Dulwich Hill - so these new councillors need to sort out their surgeries, and also take part in traffic speed exercises.

Cllr Charlie Smith (Goose Green) is quite clued up on the speed issues.

[beansprout]

As do I, as far as 20 mph goes.. Thought, stupidly after yesterday's incident, traffic might just might slow down.. And they did, but guess what, back to racing track..

Like I said in a previous thread, just time, before there is a major incident..

And where or where are these newly elected councillors?

Surely they must have got their surgeries sorted by now?

Think they were even "brave" enough to introduce themselves and what..

Silence...

Time, "We" as EDF, do something.. Like as Pugwash said traffic speeding exercise at all hours of the day - not just at peak times - not suggesting every hour - we all have phones with cameras and since there seems to be nothing forthcoming from newly elected councillors, council strapped for cash, why don't we all just snap..? No money involved.. Not sure where to go from here, but very sure all ED F folk will have ideas..

[Decoraterdave]

Yes agreed!

beansprout Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Certainly agree and as I have said more than happy

> to sign a petition.

>

> As I think all who have posted on this thread.....

> Now it has happened.

>

>

> Interestingly, just come back home and due to

> presence of police car with lights. Drivers are

> definitely slowing down.

>

> It also occurred to me yesterday evening when I

> was driving along Barry Road that even reprinting

> 20 mile signs on road would at least make drivers

> more aware.

>

> Still think and don't know how expensive it would

> be but to clock cars driving faster than 20 mph

> would be good - there are a lot of schools near

> the road and whilst parents, cares, nanny's etc

> keep the kids under control they often have a

> couple riding ahead and with best will in the

> world, kids beingvkidsxmightbnot stop at junction

> and if more than one no way can adults have eyes

> everywhere.

>

> We have already had on this post, mention of a kid

> who survived been thrown in the air.

[Sally Eva]

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/community-roadwatch

The police need volunteers to do Community Speedwatch in Southwark.

Quite a long time ago now a Speedwatch session was done on Barry Road. It showed what we all know. The police need at least one "community" person to do a session. It provides useful evidence that the problem exists and is a more humane way of demonstrating it than using KSI stats.

[ruffers]

So do we have any actual evidence or stats on accidents on this road?

My personal impression is traffic is slower than it was say 5 years ago on Barry Road, but that's just an impression.

[kai]

If the council put speed cameras on barry rd will they remove speed bumos on barry junction of Goodrich rd which causes our houses to shake and crack inside every time a large vehicle hits the crumbling hump but the council refuse to admit is the cause and shoo us away with refusals to comebinside our homes to feel the vibrations and simply tell us to go soend money and hire structural surveyors

[suecharlie@btinterne]

As an East Dulwich Councillor i have been on the team with the speed gun about half a dozen times over the last two years. If a vehicle is clocked over 26mph, they are sent a warning letter. If they have previously driven over the 20mph limit they can expect to receive a penalty notice. Any further breaches could result in attendance at a bad driver school

You're Sincerely

Councillor Charlie Smith

Goose Green Ward Member

[Sally Eva]

Do you have any information on how many are caught again?

[Pugwash]

The Police Safer Neighbourhood Teams are in the process of setting dates for their regular meetings with the local community. It looks likely that the Dulwich Hill SNT will be meeting at Christ Church Barry Road in July (date not fixed yet). The Goose Green SNT has yet to be set up I believe.

[alex_b]

suecharlie@btinterne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As an East Dulwich Councillor i have been on the

> team with the speed gun about half a dozen times

> over the last two years. If a vehicle is clocked

> over 26mph, they are sent a warning letter. If

> they have previously driven over the 20mph limit

> they can expect to receive a penalty notice. Any

> further breaches could result in attendance at a

> bad driver school

>

> You're Sincerely

> Councillor Charlie Smith

> Goose Green Ward Member

Charlie - These are nice activities to gauge the problem. But 6 hours of enforcement a year is hardly going to make a real difference. Also as you know when there's someone standing there in hi-vis there is a temporary change in behaviour which makes it look like less of a problem

We need proper enforcement of speed limits across the borough, preferably by average speed cameras, rather than activities that allow politicians to give the appearance of something being done in their newsletters.

[Penguin68]

We need proper enforcement of speed limits across the borough, preferably by average speed cameras, rather than activities that allow politicians to give the appearance of something being done in their newsletters.

To be fair, this is also about information building - this route is difficult to deal with, as it's both a numbered road and a bus route. Any significant speed limiting has to get the nod from TFL amongst others. Without information this won't be available.

Complaints about both speeding and dangerous/ thoughtless driving leading to accidents (and about vision obstruction for those trying to drive across Barry) have been rife over the last 10-15 years (and probably longer). All councillors can do is collect information (real, not hearsay) to make a case.

My fear is that we will have to wait for more deaths or serious injury before the case becomes compelling enough.

[alex_b]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> To be fair, this is also about information

> building - this route is difficult to deal with,

> as it's both a numbered road and a bus route. Any

> significant speed limiting has to get the nod from

> TFL amongst others. Without information this won't

> be available.

> All councillors can

> do is collect information (real, not hearsay) to

> make a case.

Forgive my scepticism but there have been multiple traffic surveys (using the strips across the road) over the years which get a more accurate view of the situation than two hours with a speed gun three times a year. The councillors have plenty of evidence, but just as with Adys/Nutbrook/Maxted there doesn't seem to be any political will to tackle these issues.

[Abe_froeman]

26 mph is 30% above the speed limit. It's the same as doing 40 in a 30. How is that the acceptable cut off for a ticket?

[Penguin68]

The councillors have plenty of evidence, but just as with Adys/Nutbrook/Maxted there doesn't seem to be any political will to tackle these issues.

Agreed there is plenty of evidence, but is it sufficient to convince those with an 'interest' in Barry Road (TfL, DoT)? - possibly the evidence in the past has not been sufficient for the council to impose draconian traffic calming measures. As I have said, I suspect only deaths or serious injury may be sufficient, evidence of speeding in and of itself may not be.

I don't agree with this attitude, I have seen too many close calls. Much of what the council is doing (clearing parked cars from junctions etc. by extending double yellows) in fact may increase the chances of speeding - obstructions tend to slow things down.

[alex_b]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> 26 mph is 30% above the speed limit. It's the same

> as doing 40 in a 30. How is that the acceptable

> cut off for a ticket?

In fact they'll only send you a letter (and potentially a ticket if you get caught twice) if you're doing MORE than 26 (i.e. the gun needs to show 27mph). So it's really 35% above the speed limit before they do anything.

[dirac]

>So it's really 35% above the speed limit before they do anything.

That's ridiculous. What is the point of a 20mph speed limit if it's actually 27mph where you start to receive a warning letter? The fact it's not a fine and points is ludicrous.

Also, why would TFL get a say if there are speed cameras installed just because buses go down it? One rule for cars one for buses (genuine question)?

[beansprout]

Now we have a white van that has lost abit of its side with a flat tyre parked opposite the Elms in Barry Road that has been there for over 24 hours nd will no doubt either be dumped there or what? One would assume man whose name is on piece of paper on front might wantvitvforcwork but clearly not.

Cars racing up road last night - circa 10 ish....

[Cardelia]

dirac Wrote:

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> >So it's really 35% above the speed limit before

> they do anything.

>

> That's ridiculous. What is the point of a 20mph

> speed limit if it's actually 27mph where you start

> to receive a warning letter? The fact it's not a

> fine and points is ludicrous.

Because law enforcement have to take into account the possibility of error. Calibration errors on the speed gun, poor use of the speed gun by the operator, improperly calibrated speedometers on cars, poor sight lines between car and speed gun: lots of factors can cause an inaccurate reading on a speed gun. This is why the ACPO guidelines for prosecuting speeding drivers are 10% + 2 mph (35 in a 30, 46 in a 40 and so forth) so that the risk of operator error is effectively negated. Hence in a 20 mph zone, the prosecution threshold should be a minimum of 24 mph.

The other thing to bear in mind is the law of unintended consequences. If the margin of error over the posted speed limit is very small, most drivers' eyes will be glued to their speedometer trying not to travel faster than the limit rather than watching where they're going. The police have to balance the risks of people travelling a little bit over the limit vs. the risk of people not watching where they're going and accidentally hitting someone.

[jamesmcash]

Hi all

Thanks a lot for raising this important issue. Following the investigatory work that Cllr Charlie Smith spoke about, the Council has reviewed the speeds on Barry Road. This has confirmed the comments posted on here regarding speeding: the average speed on Barry Road is significantly higher than the 20mph speed limit.

As a result, the ward councillors will discuss with council officers what physical measures can be put in place to reduce these speeds and therefore improve road safety. There will be a public consultation regarding the matter later this year, hopefully by early autumn.

In the meantime I would be keen to hear from residents what type of physical speeding measures you would like to see implemented.

Best wishes

James

[alex_b]

James - physical measures make life miserable for local residents. We have to put up with tipper trucks banging over speed humps 24 hrs a day in Adys Rd as they use the road as a rat run. Drivers also accelerate between control measures increasing noise versus constant speeds. With busses using Barry Road it?ll be even worse for residents and bus passengers. I sometimes wonder if council officers ever actually examine the real world impact of their plans.

Personally I think average speed cameras would work well on Barry Rd.

[Jacqui5254]

NO MORE SPEED HUMPS!

For Barry Road, a fully operational speed camera gets my vote.

[singalto]

There is also a big problem with speeding on Lordship Lane. I agree that speed cameras are much better than humps.