How do you measure being a successful person?

[resident25yearsED]

I don't know how you react to this new question? it will depend on you!

I was at work the other day and we got onto this subject and it threw up all sorts of things some very personal and some more community based but it was interesting anyhow

what did come through as a common thread was being basically being a person that excells

[silverfox]

I suppose it depends who is doing the measuring.

I've known many a driven person who has been 'successful' in the sense of achieving a high position in a company with high financial rewards yet have 'failed' in two or three marriages and are estranged from their children because of their ambition.

A person can be successful in his or her chosen field but can be unknown outside that field and not necessarily well rewarded financially, eg, academics, medicine etc

Many a teacher has inspired some of their pupils to love a subject and to go on flourish in that subject yet It is difficult to say that teacher is a success if you measure success by wealth, position, power and being a household name, being pictured on the front of magazines and interviewed on television.

In short, there are degrees of success and it is a relative term. Strangely, we all seem to recognize success when we see it.

[Huguenot]

Well I guess silverfox has kind of nailed it.

In a more simplistic way, I'd say that 'success' is simply hitting a set of goals or objectives.

We tend to judge other people by our own goals - which means that we are only going to seee success in people who share our own aspirations and values.

The value we place in home ownership, families, financial wealth or business achievement differs from individual to individual, and although we can abstractly empathise with other people's 'success' we don't really feel it.

I sometimes think my own Dad struggles to see past the fact that I don't own a car to see the success I have in business. I could buy several cars if I wished, but would consider myself a failure.

However, in some visceral way, I think my Dad believes that my lack of car ownership means that I haven't passed througha gateway to adulthood - even though I'm in my forties!

[silverfox]

The example of cars is a good one. Sometimes we confuse 'the trappings of success' with the real thing.

If I see someone driving an expensive Porsche or Rolls Royce or wearing a Rolex I assume they are successful. However, they may not have those desirable items through their own efforts and may have inherited money or the item or have been given them by successful(ie rich)parents.

On the other hand, some people who can be generally viewed as 'failures' in their lifetime become recognised for their success after their death. For example, Vincent van Gogh or some of the great writers of the 19th Century who nearly starved in garrets writing what are now recognised as great works of art. The pity here is that their talent and creative genius did nothing for them while they were alive.

'Success' has many forms. There have been many 'succesful' ruling tyrants and drug dealers who brought misery to millions as well as many successful people who have brought enjoyment to millions (eg, Walt Disney, J k Rowling).

Some successful businessmen, for example, have excelled in stripping companies of assets and laying off staff to make the company leaner, fitter and more profitable. While a small to medium sized-businessman who builds up a company that employs a few hundred workers may not be seen to be as successsful but may have made a more valuable contribution to the local community.

To misquote Shakespeare:

Some are born successful, some achieve success, and some have success thrust upon them.

[resident25yearsED]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The example of cars is a good one. Sometimes we

> confuse 'the trappings of success' with the real

> thing.

>

> If I see someone driving an expensive Porsche or

> Rolls Royce or wearing a Rolex I assume they are

> successful. However, they may not have those

> desirable items through their own efforts and may

> have inherited money or the item or have been

> given them by successful(ie rich)parents.

>

> On the other hand, some people who can be

> generally viewed as 'failures' in their lifetime

> become recognised for their success after their

> death. For example, Vincent van Gogh or some of

> the great writers of the 19th Century who nearly

> starved in garrets writing what are now recognised

> as great works of art. The pity here is that their

> talent and creative genius did nothing for them

> while they were alive.

>

> 'Success' has many forms. There have been many

> 'succesful' ruling tyrants and drug dealers who

> brought misery to millions as well as many

> successful people who have brought enjoyment to

> millions (eg, Walt Disney, J k Rowling).

>

> Some successful businessmen, for example, have

> excelled in stripping companies of assets and

> laying off staff to make the company leaner,

> fitter and more profitable. While a small to

> medium sized-businessman who builds up a company

> that employs a few hundred workers may not be seen

> to be as successsful but may have made a more

> valuable contribution to the local community.

>

> To misquote Shakespeare:

> Some are born successful, some achieve success,

> and some have success thrust upon them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

An intention achieved, seems like a good description of success then? similiar to what Hugu said "I'd say that 'success' is simply hitting a set of goals or objectives". So success can be described as being good or bad all depending on the good or bad intention. thanks for that.

[zeban]

I think it's important to form your own definition of success, otherwise you'll end up wasting a lot of time and energy chasing someone else?s version of the word.

Interesting quotes on some ideas of success:

Doing What You Love

Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

Following Your Own Path

A successful life is one that is lived through understanding and pursuing one?s own path, not chasing after the dreams of others. ? Chin-Ning Chu

Living Each Moment

Life is a succession of moments. To live each one is to succeed. - Corita Kent

Overcoming Obstacles

Success is not measured by what a man accomplishes, but by the opposition he has encountered and the courage with which he has maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds. ? Charles Lindbergh

Treating People Well

Never lose sight of the fact that the most important yardstick of your success will be how you treat other people ? your family, friends, and co-workers, and even strangers you meet along the way. ? Barbara Bush

Excelling in Multiple Areas of Your Life

I believe that being successful means having a balance of success stories across the many areas of your life. You can?t truly be considered successful in your business life if your home life is in shambles. ? Zig Ziglar

Doing Your Best

The man who has done his level best, and who is conscious that he has done his best, is a success, even though the world may write him down as a failure. ? B.C. Forbes

Seeking and Finding Love

The person who tries to live alone will not succeed as a human being. His heart withers if it does not answer another heart. His mind shrinks away if he hears only the echoes of his own thoughts and finds no other inspiration. - Pearl S. Buck

Leaving the World a Better Place

What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal. ? Albert Pike

Success is Many Things

To laugh often and much;

To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;

To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends;

To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;

To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;

To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.

This is to have succeeded. - Bessie Stanley

[Huguenot]

All great examples of other people setting their objectives in terms of their own set of values.

None of them any more valid than the next, despite how prosaically or romantically they are stated.

Even just trying to do something can be a goal in itself.

I quite like the ones that define success as following your own path - the statement is unwittingly an oxymoron: in order to accept that philosophy you would need to embrace someone else's guidance... ;-)

[Laddy Muck]

For me, it's simple: the attainment of that elusive thing called (true) happiness.

[HamsterLB]

Being successful is a journey with determination and persistence, to believe in what we can

do is possible. I always admire and I felt inspired by Amadeus Mozart is a good example.

[Santerme]

Two great daughters....

[resident25yearsED]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All great examples of other people setting their

> objectives in terms of their own set of values.

>

> None of them any more valid than the next, despite

> how prosaically or romantically they are stated.

>

> Even just trying to do something can be a goal in

> itself.

>

> I quite like the ones that define success as

> following your own path - the statement is

> unwittingly an oxymoron: in order to accept that

> philosophy you would need to embrace someone

> else's guidance... ;-)

yes honesty is a measure of true greatness perhaps hugo and maybe then to follow your own path is a truthful one

[silverfox]

There seems to be a lot of pseudo-Buddhist nonsense creeping into this thread.

Reality Check - success is not a simple matter of following your own path. This is meaningless drivel. Success is what others agree it to be. It is external of your efforts. An independent universal.

I might think I'm successful because of X, but if others don't agree then I'm deluding myself.

Sucess is measureable, depending how others measure it.

If I turned up at some ashram in India/Nepal with no money/US Dollars, a kick up the ass as they turn me away would give me all the enlightment I need to know.

Edited for spelling

[resident25yearsED]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There seems to be a lot of pseudo-Buddhist

> nonsense creeping into this thread.

>

> Reality Check - success is not a simple matter of

> following your own path. This is meaningless

> drivel. Success is what others agree it to be. It

> is external of your efforts. An independent

> universal.

>

> I might think I'm successful because of X, but if

> others don't agree then I'm deluding myself.

>

> Sucess is measureable, depending how others

> measure it.

>

> If I turned up at some ashram in India/Nepal with

> no money/US Dollars, a kick up the ass as they

> turn me away would give me all the enlightment I

> need to know.

>

>

> Edited for spelling

But aren't we always told to not be self conscious about other peoples thoughts of us Silver Fox? - do you go around looking for other peoples affirmation of your success? I don't agree with you here.. it is important to judge your success by measurement of your own achievements alongside your own ability, intention and effort made. Your assertion about following your own path as meaningless drivel, is a personal one and not a universal truth.. personal happiness and aligned success, is a personal one ultimately and must always remain so.. never give over to another that responsibility of judgement (it can be full of the other persons life stuff, be it good or bad) ..it could lead to unhappiness. Silverfox, you have given to others the job of measuring your success?

[LadyDeliah]

What Silverfox means is that he played by the rules and succeeded within those rules so he'll be damned if he's going to let sone upstart hippy say that there is another measure of success he could have used and saved himself from having to deny himself pleasure all these years :)

[bobbly]

Upstart hippy? I think ZebaN simply gave some other examples to consider that are not generally given merit in our capitalist society. He/she did say that its what is personal to you, not necessarily denying what you believe in. I do I don't think it warrants such abuse. A little more respect would be appreciated, everyone is entitled to their opinion surely.

[Huguenot]

Judging by the time of posting, I think Silverfox had probably been mixing whisky and Horlicks with unfortunate side-effects.

Interestingly he does touch on one of the challenges addressed by many celebrated philosophers, not the least of which was Nietzsche.

The essence of the problem was whether people had to externalise their thoughts or convictions before they became valid.

i.e. you could think a lot of good thoughts, but if you only did bad things, were you essentially good or bad?

In this case, are we obliged to externalise our goals and objectives before we can claim success?

If we must, then will our success largely be defined by other people?

If we don't share our objectives, then can we claim any success at all: since most of us carry a bundle of conflicting ideas in our heads most of the time, will we probably just revise our original goals to meet whatever we have achieved?

[LadyDeliah]

bobbly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Upstart hippy? I think ZebaN simply gave some

> other examples to consider that are not generally

> given merit in our capitalist society. He/she did

> say that its what is personal to you, not

> necessarily denying what you believe in. I do I

> don't think it warrants such abuse. A little more

> respect would be appreciated, everyone is entitled

> to their opinion surely.

Do I need to post an irony alert?

[zeban]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What Silverfox means is that he played by the

> rules and succeeded within those rules so he'll be

> damned if he's going to let sone upstart hippy say

> that there is another measure of success he could

> have used and saved himself from having to deny

> himself pleasure all these years :)

I think you're absolutely spot on LD :)

[Undisputedtruth]

Gandhi had few possessions when he died.

Gandhi didn't play by the rules of colonialism.

Was Gandhi successful? You bet he was.

[silverfox]

So in your opinion undisputedtruth Ghandi was successful. To put it another way, you recognize that

Ghandi was successful (as do I). Therefore Ghandi has been deemed to be a success because of others, third parties, who have measured it.

Had bandy legs (as he was affectionately known by Private Eye) become a hermit and contemplated injustice no one would now regard him as a success no matter how admirable his thoughts, which we wouldn't know about.

Success then cannot be simply what you want it to be - an internalised rose tinted view - it is something observed and recognized by others.

[LadyDeliah]

That's a bit like that philosophy crap; does a tree that falls in the forest with no-one to hear it, actually make a sound.

So Silverfox, does your recognition of success depend on the amount or quality od persons recognising it?

If one tramp manages to make a roll up out of a couple of old dog ends and his fellow tramp is impressed, is he then a success under your definition?

[silverfox]

I suppose it does depend to some extent on who recognises it, otherwise every proud parent would have sired successful off-spring which cannot possibly be the case. There has to be some objective measure.

As regards the tramps my answer is no, as it would be for someone who followed their own path in an ashram and spent 20 years trying to roll the perfect spliff, meeting all his goals and objectives by doing so. However on some of the woolly definitions above both tramps and levitating high as a kite hippy could be successful.

[Loz]

Isn't the question unclear? There are actually two questions:

- How do you measure if *you* are a successful person?

- How do you measure if someone else is a successful person?

The first is simple and boils down to: "am I happy"? The second is much more difficult.

[Huguenot]

Ha ha, nah - that's too simple. :))

The first thing boils down to 'have I got what I want'?

The second thing boils down to 'has he got what I want'?

[Loz]

Brilliant!