Maternity nurses

[new mother]

We thought about it and decided against, to the horror of most of our friends. We didn't regret it for a minute and I would not have missed a minute of any of the early days of my babies' lives. However, the number of threads on here about babies not sleeping at eg 6 months horrifies me.

What is that maternity nurses do such that they hand over a night sleeping baby to their clients after a few weeks and always before three months? Some of it is owing to formula but they have similar results when feeding babies expressed milk. What do they know that most mothers don't?!

[srisky]

I know nothing about maternity nurses but I find the definitions of 'not sleeping' and 'sleeping through the night' to be very variable!

I think some parents feel their babies 'should' be sleeping through and therefore, embelish a tad when recounting the night's events to other parents. Not out of spite but more to make themselves feel better and so it perpetuates.

Maybe those who hired one feel more pressured to say their babies sleep well after spending money on a maternity nurse.

If, however, I am wrong and someone knows their secret then please divulge!!

[new mother]

You could well be right.

I also have one friend who does exaggerate how often the baby cries, during the afternoon, at least.

Maybe it is like age. Up to about 80, you take years off but, thereafter, you are proud to tell anyone and everyone.

[alieh]

I have the same experience with friends who had a maternity nurse for the first 8 weeks (twins) and their little ones are the exact same age as my 6 month old shocker. Like you say, theirs sleep (from the 11 pm feed to 6 or 7 am mostly). I have spent many hours wondering the same as you! Her twins are exclusively breastfed as is my son, so it isn't a formula issue. I actually spent a week with them on holiday so witnessed their routine every day.

Here is my assessment:

1. They are very structured about feeds during the day and she pumps after every single feed in order to have 2 X 200 mL bottles for each baby (one for bedtime, one for 10 pm feed). As they were underweight at birth, they are very used to "forcefeeding" them at regular intervals during the day to try to get their weight up. They spend ages getting these 200 mLs down them at bedtime and 10 pm and eventually they do take it though they're often turning their heads away back and forth trying to get away from the bottle, at which point I would have given up!

2. They leave them to cry, basically. I think this is the key difference. From day one they were fed then swaddled and put down to sleep. If they cried, it was because they were tired as they had just had a full feed (goes the thinking) so I think the nurse advised just leaving them. In my experience, they don't seem like big criers but not sure what they were like in the first few weeks. At this stage (i.e. on our holiday, aged 4 months) they didn't seem to cry that much before sleep, but some days they did get overtired and they did seem to cry for up to 45 minutes at bedtime and they just left them. They also did wake up in the night and yelled sporadically, but unless they really went for ages or sounded hysterical, they didn't go in. After about 3 months the nurse said they didn't need to be fed after the 10/11 pm feed so they just offered water or nothing until morning (sometimes she would feed the boy around 4 or 5 to get him back to sleep but not often).

I have no idea what the babies were like for the first 8 weeks with the nurse, or how much they cried, but they do seem like very placid babies generally.

So I've determined that the maternity nurse approach would not work for me because I am too disorganised to be that structured about routine in the day with a very young baby (older baby/toddler different) and end up just feeding my guy throughout the day whilst at toddler groups with my eldest (try to keep to 3 hour feeds but not religiously). But primarily, I can't listen to my baby cry. Not judging another approach because I do believe he's often crying out of tiredness, but if he's crying I feel the need to help him.

Very long answer but I've spent alot of time thinking about this!

[srisky]

Thanks, Alieh, that's very interesting. I'm glad we didn't hire one, as I don't think I would have been happy with some of the approaches you have mentioned (namely the enforced feeding and leaving them to cry) but then that's just me and it may be fine for others.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I'm not Anti CIO/CC, whatever works for you, I say, but isn't it actually quite damaging to let very little ones cry for prolonged periods? My 4wk old would probably explode if I did that...

[Yak]

Really interesting thread and observations. It has always struck me as a bit odd that we / they / the "experts etc seem to expect all babies to need the same amount of sleep and the same amount of food. Surely that makes as much sense as expecting all adults to sleep and eat the same. I think maternity nurses can be a god send (particularly to twin mums - the 4 sets of twins I know have used doulas/mothers helps/maternity nurses for the first month or two) but ultimately I suspect much really depends on the child's own eating and sleeping habits and the parent's attitude to those habits, as alieh says.

[zeban]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We thought about it and decided against, to the

> horror of most of our friends.

Are you serious?!!!! From this thread it just sounds like another way those awful competitive mothers can compete with eachother... 'My Darling sleeps through the whooooole night'!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Totally agree with Yak; at 4wks, lex is alert and awake a lot in th day- she's not one of these sleep, wake, quick feed and poo, sleep again babas. This horrified the HV. All babies are totally different, as are parents and expectations. I have a friend who considers STTN nothing less than 11hrs straight. We get a 5 1/2 hr block from Lex and seeing as how that's what i've been surviving on for the past 20mo or so, I consider that to be STTN. Same friend would consider that a major sleep problem. Shrug.

Saying that, I'm about to take on a post natal doula; not for sleep woes, but for other reasons (namely someone to tend to Lex so I can spend 1:1 time with Seb, lex's arrival has seriously affected him and drastic action needs to be taken to make him feel less pushed out, poor bugger)

[sillywoman]

Baby's cry because they need something. It may not be food, it's more likely to be comfort, a cuddle something of that ilk. If you can bear to listen to your little baby asking you for a cuddle or asking you for some comfort because they're scared or anxious for 45 minutes then you're a stronger man/woman than me!

Of course you need to balance the reckoning for how much they need from you with how old they are, how much they're crying & what else is going on in their lives at that time (teething, growth spurt, illness etc.etc.) What Maternity nurses do is they don't respond to the baby's pleas for comfort because they don't have the hormones/connection with baby driving them to it. They can be that little bit cooler about the whole process. It's not cruel in any massive way, it does result in a baby that sleeps better - well they just don't call out for comfort when they wake, they 'self-soothe' themselves back to sleep - but it also results in a baby who knows that his needs won't be met by Mum/Dad so they cry less (hence they tend to seem like 'placid' babies). They learn there's no point in asking for comfort. Is this a good thing? Who knows? Depends on you POV I guess? It's not an approach that was for me, but it suits some.

[Monkey]

Maternity nurses only do what a lot of our mothers and grandmothers would do: structured feeds during the day and routines. Aren't they just an expensive luxury for people who have forgotten how to raise babies?

[bluesuperted]

Great post SW. I was going to write the same re hormones but you've summed it up perfectly.

One thing that irks me, is that many modern parenting gurus/maternity nurse types/ by the book (which book??) HVs do not classify 'comfort' or 'cuddle just for cuddle's sake' as a valid need for a baby. It is a need, and when they are teeny tiny (4 months is very young in my mind) that need is hugely important. In my mind it's still important at one year and beyond; my little one wanted to sleep on my head the night before last, have constant cuddles and be carried most of the day yesterday. I obliged (and it was lovely!) and at around 6pm he got a temperature. He wanted comforting because he was fighting off something. Horses for courses but I can't imagine not responding to needs like this.

Also, if I had all the money in the world, I wouldn't want someone else to take charge of my baby so wholly in the first few days and weeks of life (looking at this from perspective of just having one child btw, can't comment on your situation Ruth and think Doula sounds like great idea to allow time to reconnect with S). Those days are hard, overwhelming, emotional. But I wouldn't swap them or be able to stand the feeling that there were large amounts of time I couldn't account for.

[srisky]

I had never heard of maternity nurses or the concept of them until 3 or 4 months ago. I can understand why some people may find them useful. I can not begin to imagine how hard it must be to have twins - the first 6 weeks of my daughter's life were very tough. It must be even harder for those that do not have much support from family/friends.

Having said that, I find it hard to get my head around the fact that it's almost a requirement for a maternity nurse to have no emotional repsonse to a crying baby. It seems to go against our natural instincts to comfort and I'd also be worried that something was amiss in a baby so young.

[zeban]

I agree Monkey

[new mother]

Sillywoman, that makes me so sad to read. I cldnt listen to a baby crying for more than a few secs! As for enforced feeding, we were told to do this at kings on the basis that many babies do not demand enough food so you have to shove it in. The first twothirds take two mins and the last third about half an hour.

For me also it wld have been awful to have handed the babies over to someone BUT I visited a friend the other day who was doing v well post section and they asked whether she wanted the baby to be looked after in the nurses' station that first night. (the alternative wld have been for her to have buzzed them if the baby cried or, if she hadn't woken, to have had them come in and feed the baby at the right time.) she said great! And was thrilled to get rid off the baby overnight as she put it. I found it weird as did my husband, who went very "mother's place" ish about it.

Different hormones from the ones that drove me at one day post partum. I viewed every poor old midwife as a potential abductor I think!

Zeban, yes, many people don't want to have the downside of babies. I dont either but instincts force me otherwise!

[mrs f]

really don't want to start a debate but just to say we did sleep training when baby f was say 3 months as he started waking for no reason and couldn't get back to sleep even with me cuddling him to sleep. For us that was CIO, and it was pretty grim listening to him cry and yes he is a great sleeper (generally) now but he is certainally not a placid baby, all of you whome have met him will agree Baby F is VERY active and spirited! So yes we are horrid for letting him cry but it certainally didn't diminish his spirit!

each to their own i guess.... but I could never have handed him over to someone else to look after when he was tiny.... I still have problems leaving him with his dad for a night out!

[new mother]

Interesting, thanks. Daddies are all very well at playing and swimming and even getting the shopping if clearly instructed but none of the house jobs get done!

[Belle]

when i was really struggling with a newborn and had terrible PND, a few people suggested getting a maternity nurse, but I resisted it (this despite the fact I would say I hadn't bonded with my son brilliantly at this point - def didn't feel bereft when I nipped out to the shop without him etc). As others have said, nothing wrong with them if you feel you have the need (and means!) - and in retrospect maybe it would have helped us - but my instinct was that it would undermine me and make me feel even less confident than I did around my baby. We did do quite a strict feeding schedule as a legacy from having been in Kings for a week with a low birth weight baby, and I think in retrospect we were a bit rigid. And maybe that was a factor, or maybe it wasn't, but we were v lucky that he slept well from relatively early on (don't hate us - we paid for it later with terrible sleep after 1yr thanks to ear problems!) - but then I think we maybe needed that respite given what I was dealing with. And because of the circumstances in which we considered taking a maternity nurse on, I must say I'd never judge someone who did. I'm def interested in a post natal doula for number 2, because I'm keen to do as much as possible to avoid PND/mitigate against the effects of a recurrence.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Belle, if you want any recommendations for a PN doula, let me know, I have a whole arsenal of info on them. The lady I'll be working with has helped out loads of second time mums, particuarly those with PND- I suffered with PND last time and it looks as though it's rearing it's ugly head again this time too but I've nipped it in the bud, I hope.

[Otta]

Aren't maternity nurses Dickensian characters that don't exist anymore?

Can't even imagine wanting onEdit because I muddled my Victorian writers and scientists. Doh!

[Moos]

Maternity nurses aren't all like this. I was lucky to have one for No.1 for 2 weeks, and she was a very gentle & sweet person who listened to what we wanted and didn't ever advocate leaving to cry. You don't have to completely hand over your baby, but they can let you nap during the day or whatever you need, and mine was great at helpin out with washing, cooking and so on. Oh, and when she brought tiny Moosling to me in the middle of the night for a "breastfeed" (ho ho, more like shrieking & thrashing session), he came with a glass of warm milk & some buttered toast for me! Luxury..

[Belle]

Now that I could handle Moos! sounds v practical. It's like I always like the sound of the old fashioned way when my mum/mil had babies in hospital, and the babies were brought for feeds but looked after for stretches in between at night so mum could get some sleep.

[zeban]

Moos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maternity nurses aren't all like this. I was

> lucky to have one for No.1 for 2 weeks, and she

> was a very gentle & sweet person who listened to

> what we wanted and didn't ever advocate leaving to

> cry. You don't have to completely hand over your

> baby, but they can let you nap during the day or

> whatever you need, and mine was great at helpin

> out with washing, cooking and so on. Oh, and when

> she brought tiny Moosling to me in the middle of

> the night for a "breastfeed" (ho ho, more like

> shrieking & thrashing session), he came with a

> glass of warm milk & some buttered toast for me!

> Luxury..

See Monkey's post:

'Maternity nurses only do what a lot of our mothers and grandmothers would do: structured feeds during the day and routines. Aren't they just an expensive luxury for people who have forgotten how to raise babies?'

[Moos]

What do you mean, zeban?

[snowboarder]

I was going to ask same. A maternity nurse may well be a 'luxury' but I'm surprised at how they have been described on this thread - it was my understanding that they would simply help you with your baby, esp at night, in the early weeks whe you are exhausted and in shock! In an age and probably area where many of us do not have the help of family that would have been commonplace in the time of our grandmothers it sounds an amazing resource on offer....