Babies after 40

[helena handbasket]

Yes it was a kind offer of a play date. Thank you again, Saffron. It was based on the suggestion that my son is not exposed to younger children, which is not the case so I explained that.

As it turns out we go back and forth and have spent the summer there, so no need to put words in my mouth new mother.

new mother Wrote:

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> HH, why not say in response to saffron, "many

> thanks but we live in north America"?! You said

> that previously, I am convinced.... It was a kind

> offer of a play date regardless, Saffron.

[helena handbasket]

Good luck to you too!

randomv Wrote:

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> HH "emotional purgatory" is such a great way of

> describing the situation! It's incredibly

> frustrating to feel you don't have control over

> something that could have such a huge impact on

> your life and family dynamic, or at least that's

> how it is for me. As for how long you keep

> trying, I wish I had the answser. I've told myself

> that if it doesn't happen for me by the new year

> then I will start to focus on other things in my

> life (which I am currently putting off) but as we

> draw into September and the New Year is only a few

> months away now I don't feel ready to give up my

> hopes of giving my LO a sibling.

>

> It's a strange feeling to at once be happy with

> what you've got but saddened by your inability to

> change it! Best of luck to you and hope we both

> get what we want soon.

[Saffron]

helena handbasket Wrote:

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> Yes it was a kind offer of a play date. Thank you

> again, Saffron. It was based on the suggestion

> that my son is not exposed to younger children,

> which is not the case so I explained that.

No worries. And the invitation is of course open to anyone in a similar situations to yours! :)

[Huggers]

hi I didnt meet my husband till my late thirties, had my first baby at 40, conceived naturally and delivered vaginally, then had my son very quickly afterwards via mother nature and vaginal delivery at 41. My husbands 7 years younger than me. It wasnt a question of me putting off motherhood, it just happened that way. and I was more relaxed as a person anyway. They are teenagers now so it seems to have gone OK! One of my bestest friends is about to have first baby at 46- again a spontaneous act of nature involving a new relationship and a complete surprise. You never know.

[new mother]

Interesting. I wonder if the male age has more to do with it than we think. Do you know roughly how old your friendd's partner is?

[Smiler]

Hiya, am not over 40, but for a fair while we weren't sure if we could have a second child (fertility issues) so can relate to the feeling of being in limbo and trying not to become preoccupied with trying for a second child to the detriment of living as a family of three.

Think though, that sometimes, the approach of "wait and see" can actually be quite stressful.

With fertility there're so many tricky decisions, e.g. how hard to "try", whether/when to seek medical tests for one or both partners, try treatments / interventions, whether/when to try again after miscarriage(s). I felt under a fair bit of pressure from family and friends to "just relax" and "wait and see", but decided that it was better - for me - to really go for it and then deal with it later if we got to the end of the line in terms of what one or both of us could cope with. So we sought early medical advice, went private to speed things up, had tests, had treatment, tried again and again etc. This brought its own stresses, but I wanted to feel that I'd done everything possible to try, even if it didn't work out.

I do know a few people who have taken the "wait and see" approach and regretted it, e.g. because one of them turned out to have poor fertility, so the limbo time was kind of wasted.

With respect to men, think my fertility specialist reckoned that sperm weren't as good after 40!

[cuppa tea]

It's interesting the assumptions that people place on only children. I think it's also worth remembering that people also look for particular personality traits in older siblings, younger siblings, people with sisters, people with brother, the youngest of 4 boys, the youngest of 5 girls...etc. It's all a load of rubbish in my opinion. I think it just comes down to our need to catagorise each other, so we supposedly know who we are dealing with. I have met only children who are very confident, good at sharing, intelligent and social people.

Since having my second child, in some ways, I have felt like I have made life much harder for my older son. Their relationship is very sweet sometimes, but he has really been through the mill with it all. I think and hope they will become good friends, but it is not a certainty. And there is no guarantee they will be close as adults. I am not so close to my brother and actually I feel more supported by friends rather than family. I think it's also possible to feel very alone even in a big family. With relationships, it's rarely straightforward!

[helena handbasket]

I hope you're not suggesting that I'm making assumptions about my son as an only and categorizing him as such. I like to think I'm a bit more thoughtful than that. My worries are for the way I see it affecting him specifically.

I'm asking for other people's experiences and sharing what I feel is happening in my family. I see my son trying to understand families and why his is different, and he asks a lot of questions. And yes sometimes he says heartbreaking things about it ("I just wonder why I didn't get to have a brother or sister"). Obviously I am aware that siblings don't always get along. And my own family is totally dysfunctional. But they are all I have and it's more than my husband has.

Sometimes I feel like people just need to convince you that what you feel is wrong. Why is that?

Smiler, thanks for that perspective. I have wondered about pursuing it more intensely, but honestly feel like I'm better off putting that energy into the wonderful son I have. I will think long and hard about that now, as I get what you're saying.

I have no issues with only children, and was happy to have one until recently. But I feel selfish for arbitrarily deciding that he will be the only child in this family. There are no cousins, and our tight circle of friends is a bit international so no telling where people will be in 5, 10, 20 years. People move. It's just part of the puzzle, there's no right answer.

I just wanted to hear other people's experiences and have enjoyed that part a lot. Thanks to those who have given me food for thought.

[zeban]

Without getting too much into the debate about how many children are best- which is surely down to the individual anyway- I have a lot of siblings and whilst a bit of a nightmare to me when I was a child in terms of space and attention, as an adult I couldn't be more grateful for having them in my life. In many ways they complete me.

I know they will always be there whereas even though when growing up I relied very much on friends for my support network, friends do move on alot of the time, or move, or their prioties change often when they find partners and start families of their own. And that really is life.

I also don't have any cousins as my aunt couldn't have children, my grandparents have passed away and my only aunt and uncle live on the other side of the UK. My siblings are all I have essentially, and whilst like any other relationships they are work sometimes (most times!), and can cause drama and headaches, they know me like no other people will and I wouldn't want to be without them.

Whilst it may not be a guarentee that you'll get on with siblings, nothing is guarenteed in life. And I don't think the choice of having more children has anything really to do with wanting to categorize them. There are absolutely no obvious attributes in me and my siblings that could be put down to where we were in the 'pecking order'.

Edited to add, goodluck HH.

[chantelle]

I think only children are great, and that having one child is severely underrated! There are studies showing they are happier than their peers in the difficult teen years, and I constantly see first-hand how second, third, fourth and fifth children can get lost in the shuffle as parents wear out and lose their initial enthusiasm. It's also just so easy to get up and go with one child - and luxuries like going on long-haul holidays are not a major cost/mission.

My 3-year old son has been in a nanny share with a boy six months older than him since he was 1 year old, and they are the best of friends. He is incredibly social and loves to make friends with virtually any child who comes his way. I'm not sure having a sibling in the home is always the best route to "having a friend." My brother (3.5 years older) was not my friend until we were adults and in childhood was a bully and feared enemy to me.

All that said, I am unexpectedly pregnant with number 2 at the age of 41 so I am being forced to reevaluate my attitude. I was very happy with one but my husband (five years younger) was very keen for a sibling and mother nature seemed to agree. I find it ironic though because I had a major struggle in my mid-30s to conceive and keep a baby, with two miscarriages and 2+ subsequent years of IVF and other fertility treatments with zero success until my naturally-conceived son. I became pregnant again in November just before my 41st birthday but again lost the baby. Surprisingly I conceived once again in March and am now 24 weeks along. I had the standard genetic blood test and nuchal scan but no invasive tests.

I've had to address a lot of negative feelings over the pregnancy, even though conception and motherhood has been such a major goal in my life for the past seven years or so. I resent having to take another career break, just when things were getting back on track, and I don't relish the thought of spending my 50s raising teenagers.

So the grass is green on both sides of the fence I suppose.

[cuppa tea]

helena handbasket Wrote:

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> I hope you're not suggesting that I'm making

> assumptions about my son as an only and

> categorizing him as such. I like to think I'm a

> bit more thoughtful than that. My worries are for

> the way I see it affecting him specifically.

>

> I'm asking for other people's experiences and

> sharing what I feel is happening in my family. I

> see my son trying to understand families and why

> his is different, and he asks a lot of questions.

> And yes sometimes he says heartbreaking things

> about it ("I just wonder why I didn't get to have

> a brother or sister"). Obviously I am aware that

> siblings don't always get along. And my own

> family is totally dysfunctional. But they are all

> I have and it's more than my husband has.

>

> Sometimes I feel like people just need to convince

> you that what you feel is wrong. Why is that?

>

> Smiler, thanks for that perspective. I have

> wondered about pursuing it more intensely, but

> honestly feel like I'm better off putting that

> energy into the wonderful son I have. I will

> think long and hard about that now, as I get what

> you're saying.

>

> I have no issues with only children, and was happy

> to have one until recently. But I feel selfish

> for arbitrarily deciding that he will be the only

> child in this family. There are no cousins, and

> our tight circle of friends is a bit international

> so no telling where people will be in 5, 10, 20

> years. People move. It's just part of the

> puzzle, there's no right answer.

>

> I just wanted to hear other people's experiences

> and have enjoyed that part a lot. Thanks to those

> who have given me food for thought.

No I absolutely wasn't suggesting that you were catagorising your son! Your posts have come across as very thoughtful, caring and purely wanting to make him happy. I was commenting on the more general idea that other people catagorise children, rather thoughtlessly at times, and the outside pressures of having an only child. With hindsight it perhaps isn't a good subject too have too many opinions on as your original post is very personal.

Was I trying to convince you that what you feel is wrong or are you referring to something else? That wasn't my intention at all. I was hoping to help by offering my personal experience in that for my son, having a sibling may not have been the best thing. The things your son is saying perhaps are heartbreaking to you, but may not be heartbreaking for you son. He is wondering why he hasn't got a sibling and may simply be trying to make sense of the differences in his family. But obviously I don't know you or your son, so am guessing.

[Saffron]

new mother Wrote:

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> Interesting. I wonder if the male age has more to

> do with it than we think. Do you know roughly how

> old your friendd's partner is?

Sperm quality definitely declines with age. I think specifically, there is more DNA breakage seen in the sperm of older men. In the past it has been thought that frequent intercourse would further reduce sperm quality. To the best of my knowledge, this has now been disproven. What has been shown is that while frequent intercourse may reduce sperm numbers slightly, this reduction is not significant. Furthermore, frequent intercourse increases the quality of sperm by reducing the amount of DNA breakage. So if you're trying to conceive, frequent (ie, daily) intercourse is best.

[new mother]

Thanks. What is the result of DNA breakage, Saffron? Non viable sperm so a reduced percentage likelihood of successful fertilisation? If so, once fertn occurs are those problems finished with or do they kick in all the way along the chain as the cells divide?

By "social" children, do people mean they are "sociable"?

[Ruth_Baldock]

This is only anecdotal: mum had me in her early 30s and really struggled to concieve me. I've ended up being 1 of 5, the rest all concieved when my mum was in hr very late 30s- mainly early-mid 40s. She found it easier to concieve in her 40s but said the pregnancies and newborn schtick Was killer. My brother was born three days after Mum turned 47. (he was 3wks late, though...)

[Saffron]

new mother Wrote:

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> Thanks. What is the result of DNA breakage,

> Saffron? Non viable sperm so a reduced percentage

> likelihood of successful fertilisation? If so,

> once fertn occurs are those problems finished with

> or do they kick in all the way along the chain as

> the cells divide?

I was reading it as DNA damage/breakage results in non-viable sperm, or possibly misfertilization leading to early spontaneous abortion of the zygote. I think it would be mutation, not breakage, that would lead to later developmental problems. I'm not sure how mutations in sperm would be affected by age, or the length of time spent in the testes. Sperm can be made daily, so maybe not greatly affected until much, much later in life? Just a guess. Here is a link to the BBC aticle: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8125934.stm . I can look up the original research papers if anyone is particularly interested...

[louloulabelle]

I had 1 St at 38 and my 2 nd 8 weeks before my 40th. Fell pregnant quickly each time. Had miscarriage 2 mths ago and I'm 41 in december and intend on trying again!

[number 2]

if you're looking for stories of trying for babies when you're over 40 (or even approaching 40) here is mine.....

we had our nearly 3 year old son when i was 38 after a year of trying and a miscarriage. i ended up having acupuncture which i really felt helped. when he turned one we started trying again. i was coming up to 39. i'm now facing 41 down the barrel of a gun and still no pregnancy. i've basically been told that my fsh levels (indicator of ovarian reserve) are high and that it's unlikely that we will conceive. not impossible, but unlikely, which, tbh, i find more difficult because then it's really difficult to make the decision to stop trying as there's always the chance that the next after we stopped month might be the one where we finally cracked it.

i come from a large family and my sisters have always been such a source of joy and comfort to me. i so, so wanted this for our son. but it probably isn't going to happen now. i've given myself 5 more months. if nothing by then i'm getting a puppy!!!!

[chantelle]

best wishes number 2 - as you can see from my story above, strange things happen. My FSH as of a year ago was peri-menopausal - around 20 - and yet I fell pregnant twice since and am now 25 weeks along.

[helena handbasket]

When I asked my doctor if I should have my FSH levels tested she kind of danced around it and suggested we just "see what happens". Maybe they aren't reliable enough?

Number 2 I know what you mean about the "just one more month" dilemma.

After reading that BBC piece all I can think is "every day?". Do people do that? :)

spelling edit, as usual

[new mother]

One of the effects of older eggs is that their lifespan once released is much shorter. So, in order to maximise the sperm and egg meeting, you should ensure a constant supply of fresh sperm. there are other issues such as "transport" which would have to be looked at too, after a certain age.

[helena handbasket]

I'm starting to kind of feel sorry for a child created from my shriveled old eggs, shuffling to the finish line with their walkers and his rusty old stale sperm. ;-)

number2 maybe that puppy isn't such a bad idea!

[louloulabelle]

oh helena handbasket when you put it like that I can barely consider trying again and all i can envisage is an embryo that looks like benjamin button..

[number 2]

thanks for your tale chantelle! it is encouraging:))like i said, 5 more months of throwing everything at it. puppies are great if not ;)

[kmoon249]

Hi Helena-

i had my first baby at 38 and will probably go for no 2 this year at age 40. I found the book, the "fertility awareness method" very helpful. I got pregnant trying only a few months after charting my cycles. you mentioned you were in touch with your cycle but perhaps with age it make take a little more.....if you do want to put in a wee bit more effort, this book will have you in tune to your body more than you probably thought possible.

Aside from that, its also a fascinating read, i learned stuff i should have learned 20 years ago!

Best of luck -