Change to restaurant old Londis

[madger]

I see this is your first post on the forum, ED Boost! And extremely fond of pizza express, it seems?! 😉. Well, vested interest or no, I absolutely agree with your point about rents being so high. Which is why a pizza express, one of the few chains still able to afford sky high rents (unlike Jamie?s etc which have been closing branches) will lead to neighbouring rent rises and obliteration of the lovely long term traders on the Lane, except the ones who own their Freehold. That seems a shame. Change and progress are different entities. A proliferation of chains leads to exponential increase in rents, leads to failure of local businesses, leads to the same boom/bust cycle in commercial property portfolios happening all over the country, reflected in homogenous high streets, or empty ones. That?s why when Sugar closed on the roundabout, it?s being replaced by another charity shop. I get stuff from charity shops, and it?s great that those worthy causes are receiving income from them, but i?m sad to see it wasn?t taken on as a shop paying staff wages and offering something different. And we now have so many of them. So whether this economic micro climate of heated growth is progress, or simply change, is based, I suppose, on whether you prefer to see holistic sustainable growth in an area over the long term, or a sudden explosion of inflated rents and City backed business ventures with a focus on investor dividends.

[Louisa]

The one positive I would take from this is that Pizza Express has not yet confirmed or denied the occupation of this space. Chain restaurants at affordable prices aren?t always a bad thing. But when a a place is saturated with the same type of offering already, it seems a pointless exercise adding to that. The one in the village is perfectly nice if you enjoy their offering, and isn?t so busy that it requires another branch so near.

Louisa.

[JohnL]

The new bike shop under Co-Operative House, Rye Lane seems to have a Cafe section when I poked my nose in (opens 21st). The Bike Cafe - sounds like a hipster joint :)

Dual use seems to be the thing this year.

[Mick Mac]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> If Pizza Express was to open this would

> cannibalise their restaurant in The Village -

Noone ever crosses the SE21/SE22 border, surely

[madger]

I totally agree chains aren?t always bad news, not at all. They can offer really good value. I don?t necessarily think pizza express?s pizzas (they vary their prices according to location) do offer better value compared to Olivelli?s (a ?micro? chain) or Il Mirto or even Franca Manca, which is perhaps so successful because it does a pizza for about ?8. Which is great! Pizza Express generally charges between ?11.50 and ?14 for a pizza in Dulwich Village which is not as affordable. If a place is born out of real passion for food I don?t mind paying more on occasion, if i?m able, but I do baulk at paying on average ?13 for a pizza from a restaurant which functions primarily as a corporate investment tool and drives up surrounding rents. So while PE markets itself as an affordable neighbourhood eatery, in reality it?s not particularly affordable, in relative terms, and has a palpably negative impact on local businesses, which I think is a sad combination.

[Mick Mac]

I'm not a fan of Pizza Express anyway - urgh - defo I chain that I wouldn't think would enhance LL.

I don't think the Pizza Express in the Village is relevant, I think more that Franco Manca etc are better and nearby competition. We are short of a really good restaurant though, or something cool like Voodoo Ray. But ED isn't cool in the way Peckham is cool I guess.

I think we have enough retail - I rarely went to Londis. Surely everything it sells is also available nearby.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Voodoo Ray is my favourite. One on LL would save me a 15 minute walk

[EDBoost]

That was my first post madger and i had to chime in. Mainly because after many years of reading this forum from afar, i wanted to add my contribution to something close to my heart... pizza! Lol

I've lived in ED for more than 20 years and i love it, no where else i'd rather live, and the change/evolution of shops appearing and disappearing is something i've gotten used to. I rememeber when we had the 2 large grocers, Bicester toys, and a handful of ohter local business and not much else!

I don't think some people of this forum realise how difficult it is to run thier business full stop never mind the ones on a busy main road like LL. You can't have lots of Local business if you don't support them, and yes, the rates have gone up hugely but its also because not enough people go to them, so you can't be moaning about not having a diverse number of local shops if you don't support them (Londis for example!).

Chains aren't a bad thing, don't be a sheep and believe everything you read or hear in the media, but in saying that i agree that the local business are needed to bring character and balance to the area.

[Louisa]

Well Nando?s have now put in a planning application for signage and shop frontage change on Rye Lane, Peckham. From that I would conclude it is unlikely they?ll take on this site.

Louisa.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Perfect place for Nandos :-) They'll do roaringly well

[madger]

Apologies ED Boost, it just seemed very coincidental timing! I speak with such passion in favour of local businesses because I?ve lived here since 1999 and use, and love, the local businesses all the time. I?m puzzled by your perception that many people don?t realise how hard it is to run a shop here. That?s precisely the discussion we?re having! That?s precisely why I wrote at length about the economic impact a City backed large chain has upon local businesses who struggle to pay their ever increasing rents. The landlords put up their rents when they see they may be able to attract chains with the sort of corporate expenditure impossible for smaller businesses to afford. So dedicated local traders do all the hard work to establish varied local shops and businesses, but are then undercut by huge investment entities trading as chains which then move into an area off the back of the local traders? success and determination. And then the usual spiral, which I outlined in my previous post, ensues. Local business owners deserve more Council support and the whole rates system needs reforming as high street traders have been hit hard while internet vendors escape the increases. We all use internet shopping, but what about the elderly, the isolated, people who need and value local shops for easy to obtain services? Not to mention the local community forged between the traders and people who use their shops and restaurants. I agree absolutely that it?s extremely hard to run a shop. That?s why I think we have to be clear about the hard economic reality of a chain?s business model, and its impact upon local services. Unless local people can afford to establish and run local businesses then retail is placed solely in the hands of gigantic investment companies who fund the major chains, or individuals with independent income who can afford to set up an independent shop paying inflated rents and rates. That in turn impacts on social mobility, and means families who have lived and traded in an area for decades can no longer afford to stay and trade and are pushed out, fracturing a deeply established community and leaving enterprise and business available solely to the rich. That is a pretty sad state of affairs.

[EDBoost]

Its ok Madger. Sorry if i'm not making myself clear. What i mean is that a lot of people, in the forum complain alot with the current shops/restaurants we have already and want other types of store/cusine here but they never support them on a regular or are never happy.

For example, lets say we had a local Mexican/South American restaurant take over, it'll be great for a while but after a couple of years later the novelty/hype will die down and it'll struggle.. I rememebr when we used to have a Mexican place right wher the italian place used to be (Olivelli i think) and that was almost always empty every week! No independant or family run place can survive for 2-3 years of business. Same with the Greek restaurant near ED Station that used to be a Thai place.

I personally thing it'll be great to have some sort of sporting goods shop like a JD sports, Sports Direct, Footlocker... thats something that i think would be longlasting, its a chain that would do well as many ED and surrounding locals would go to on a regular basis and its something we don't have. :)

[Ghlpc]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> Perfect place for Nandos :-) They'll do roaringly

> well

Don't you think a Nandos would do well on Lordship Lane?

[Louisa]

Nando?s would have done well on LL around 10 years ago. More of a night life culture, younger crowd. Not so much now. Too family orientated, and Nando?s prefers the younger in/out crowd. Peckham is ideal for that, and with better rail links and a decent weekend nightlife culture, a restaurant will do marvellously down that way.

I sometimes think people like to think too highly of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident before. The main stretch is too far from the station and other than local families, these sorts of businesses would be struggling even at weekends. Peckham doesn?t have that problem.

Louisa.

[Penguin68]

Recent social research suggests that 'young professionals' are far more likely to eat out than to cook in - certainly socially - this might mean that the old split between restaurants and food (cooking component) shops is no longer meeting needs - perhaps swapping a Londis for an eatery is just mapping on to consumer need in our changing demographic in LL. Don't say I like it personally (I am no longer a young professional, by many decades) - but then the changing ED demographic is leaving me behind. And a number of the new (and well-established) LL eateries are great. Swings and roundabouts...

[redjam]

Louisa Wrote:

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>

> I sometimes think people like to think too highly

> of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown

> over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the

> younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident

> before. The main stretch is too far from the

> station and other than local families, these sorts

> of businesses would be struggling even at

> weekends. Peckham doesn?t have that problem.

>

> Louisa.

Um, have you been out in Lordship Lane at night recently, Louisa? If you go out at the weekend most of the bars and restaurants seem to be doing pretty well from what I can see, judging by the numbers of people around.

I agree it's a shame if Londis turns into a chain eatery but I don't doubt it'd do well, even if it does turn out to be (yawn) a Pizza Express.

[Abe_froeman]

It's going to be Costa Coffee

[Shaggy]

I second Wimpey. Benders.

Jakido Wrote:

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> Maybe a Wimpy would do well; balloons.

[Louisa]

Why don?t we campaign for a third M&S.

Louisa.

[Mick Mac]

Louisa Wrote:

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>

> I sometimes think people like to think too highly

> of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown

> over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the

> younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident

> before. The main stretch is too far from the

> station and other than local families, these sorts

> of businesses would be struggling even at

> weekends. Peckham doesn?t have that problem.

>

Yes - ED is defo a bit stale in terms of food and drink offerings compared to Peckham, which changes monthly it seems, but presumably has significantly lower rents

ED on the other hand has much better offerings in terms of produce for the stay at home dinner party types (Rose, Moxons, Franklins FS, Mons, all in the "Franklins Quarter") reflecting perhaps the age difference of the ED residents as compared to Peckham.

[Ollie4sam]

EDBoost, I went to that Greek restaurant near ED station, and there is a reason it closed down other than just business rates - the food was terrible! Calamari straight from the freezer (possibly Iceland).

I used to quite like the Mexican (Desperadoes I think it was called), but it was pretty tired by the end, and needed a refit which was obviously beyond their budget.

However, there are others that I think are sadly missed, although how much it has to do with rates I don't know: Springer's, Inside 72 (same vibe as Meat Liquor though), Chopsticks (before they started cutting costs on the ingredients). If there is going to be another restaurant I would prefer a good quality Chinese, as I can't find one in the area, and Thai Corner is not what it used to be (I know that's not Chinese, but it has similarities).

A decent sport shop as has been mentioned would be great - although not JD, SD or FL please! The InterSport in Herne Hill is a good model for what is needed, with some 'fashion' sports gear, but also a decent range of actual sports equipment.

[fishbiscuits]

redjam Wrote:

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> Um, have you been out in Lordship Lane at night

> recently, Louisa? If you go out at the weekend

> most of the bars and restaurants seem to be doing

> pretty well from what I can see, judging by the

> numbers of people around.

I think LL seemed much busier on thur/fri/sat nights 10 years ago than it does now. And it was a younger crowed too. Maybe partly an older demographic living/moving to ED now (middle-aged with kids). Maybe because other areas have come up in the world, so people don't bother travelling to ED any more to go drinking.

As for Nando's - I think they are taking the Mothercare site on Rye Lane. I think it's a good move for them.. they have a broad appeal, and Peckham is a diverse area (in terms of background, ethnicity, age, budget) with a rapidly growing night-time economy.

[Louisa]

Interestingly, according to the planning site, Rye Lane?s Barclays Bank will be moving to the site tipped for a Turtle Bay restaurant/bar on the unit at the corner of Bournemouth Road/Rye Lane. This then leaves the former Barclays site at the end of the lane empty. Turtle Bay have not commented much, but I wouldn?t mind guessing they?ll aim for a change of use on this soon to be empty space, where Barclays will be moving from.

Louisa.

[achoo]

Any update to what the Londis is going to be?

[Abe_froeman]

Costa Coffee!