How do you deal with biting and other extremely bad behaviour from a 3 year old?

[mummynegin]

A friend came over for lunch yesterday with her 3 year old son, who's had a biting and other difficult behaviour problem for a while. I knew the problems with her son's behaviour were bad, but I hadn't myself seen how bad he can be until yesterday. He bit my 2.5 year old son 4 times and pushed him several times knocking his head into a radiator cover. There were other more minor pushes and hitting. The biting, pushing and hitting was unprovoked and my son didn't retaliate in any way. My friend's son's behaviour was also appalling at the table at lunch with a lot of screaming and spitting out food.

I've had a lot of 2 and 3 year old children over for lunch while on maternity leave over the last year and I've never encountered behaviour like this before in my home. I've seen a bit of pushing and shoving when both children want to play with the same toy and some fussy eaters, but I have never seen totally unprovoked violence from a 3 year old before.

I know that dealing with this behaviour is difficult for my friend and so I played down the incidents while she was here, but my son was left quite confused by what happened and he woke up crying during the night last night.

I've thought about it quite a lot today and I'm just having difficulty understanding why a child would behave in this way and how parents cope with a child with a biting/bad behaviour problem.

[Saffron]

It's often a sign of frustration when toddlers and children act out in this way. It may that the child get tired or overstimulated easily, or simply that the child has trouble expressing himself. This kind of behaviour while not abnormal is certainly difficult for parents and friends alike.

If the situation arises again, I would cut the playdate short, simply observing that the child seems tired and frustrated and is not really having fun. If you had planned to have friends over for an hour, cut short at 30 min for example.

Make a rain cheque with your friend and her little one, so she knows there are no hard feelings. Set the date a few weeks in advance because you are, of course, busy. Then plan for playdate where you both meet somewhere public that your little ones can run around a lot. This way there is plenty of open space, and you can excuse yourself and your toddler to leave for any reason at any time without any hard feelings.

Many toddlers will outgrown the biting phase. However, if your friend's child has had these behavioural issues for a while, a referral to a child psychologist might be helpful, particularly if the problem is getting worse or is bad enough to cause serious disruptions to her life. xx

[Sanne Panne]

How does your friend talk about the behaviour? Do you know if/how she tries to deal with it?

To me there's a big difference when the parent really makes an effort to address the problem (be it in a gentle or a tough way, as long as it's genuinely addressed in some form or another) or whether it is more of a "this is just how he is" story.

I experienced the latter just after my second daughter was born. Friend's son nearly mauled my eldest daughter at our house, his mum did absolutely nothing, so I told her son it wasn't very nice to do that, never heard from the friend since :(

You can lose friends over this. But you can't just let it happen either. I'm not a good example as I clearly confronted the situation too directly (also a cultural issue as I'm not from here and used to being more direct) so I'm curious to see what other civilised answers like Saffron's we get.

[duchessofdulwich]

I have had a similar problem with a friend who comes over with her child.

Her daughter has pushed my daughter over on two occassions [again no reason for why?]and its always when there are no adults around.

I too was quite shocked by this and decided we are better off meeting up at a playground or soft play in the future? so you can keep an eye on the children and what they are up to. I also agree with the above posters, I wonder sometimes if a child gets bored this aggrivates them and they get frustrated?

[duchessofdulwich]

Also agree with sanne penne I could quite easily fall out with this mum i know over her daughters behaviour.

[cuppa tea]

I think the key is to not let the kids play alone together, particularly if one can be having trouble with aggression. With 3 year olds I think an adult has to be present at all time and quite often you have to really be involved with the play. They are too young to be able to deal with playing alone with another 3 year old, or younger children. Often it's lovely to be able to chat to other mums while the kids play, but I have always found that this almost never works. I am sure your friend is very upset by her son's behaviour and upset that your child was hurt. I have always found with my children that playing on mutual territory and where there is plenty of open space works far better than 'playdates', which have always ended up being a nightmare - unless the kids are a really good match. Phrases like 'unprovoked violence' are not helpful definitions, either for yourself or your friend. There will be a reason somewhere for the child's behaviour. My child's behaviour after having a sibling was pretty extreme, and still is sometimes. And it's still to do with the shock of having a sibling 20 months later!

[mummynegin]

Thanks for your views. I would never fall out with my friend over this. She's had a tough time with her son right from when he was born as he was a particularly bad sleeper and I think it must be stressful enough dealing with bad behaviour from a child than have friends give you a hard time about it too. Having said that I think I'll leave it a few months before having him over to our house again. We're going to my friend's house in a couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see if he does the same in his own territory or not. Interestingly, he didn't attempt to hurt his 1 year old sister or my 1 year old daughter in any way. They have, however, had a lot of problems with his behaviour at nursery, so it seems that the issue is with playing with children his own/similar age.

Just to add, my friend's son is very articulate and intelligent. I think he still sometimes doesn't sleep well and has eczema and hayfever. I had therefore thought that his behaviour is probably due to irritability and boredom, but I've never seen a child just bite or push another child unless they are both wanting to play with the same toy, getting in each other's way etc (that's why I describe it as "unprovoked", i.e. unprovoked by my son) and I'm having difficulty understanding how irritability and boredom can lead to "unprovoked" hurting of another child.

As regards the question about my friend's reaction, she does apologise about her son's behaviour and I understand that they've tried various ways of dealing with it from completely ignoring it (so as not to give him any attention for the negative behaviour) to "time-out". She tried putting him in time-out several times at my house, but it can be difficult doing that effectively outside your own home. From what I could tell, it was her son who was deciding when time out was over. We actually have a time-out pad, which we call the naughty matt that we take with us everywhere to make disciplining our son easier (usually just the threat of the naughty matt is enough for my son). From what I've seen my friend's approach to discipline is quite a gentle approach.

[new mother]

Gosh. I assumed it was over a toy. It was totally apropos nothing?! Out of the blue he started biting your son? Hmmm.

I met a little girl the other day who bites herself. Her mother laughed it off when we saw her doing it but I was quite shocked. It seems to me to be an indication of extreme unhappiness or, maybe, that is applying adult thoughts to the situation.

[cuppa tea]

It sounds as though the friendship with your friend is really important to you, which is lovely. Your friend may be at a lose as to what to do. Time-outs don't work on every child. They never worked on mine. Not that I particularly like the idea of them in the first place, but that's another discussion. The aggression may look unprovoked, but he will have a reason for doing it in the sense that he is upset about something. I know my son has found it extremely difficult coping with his younger siblings development stages. The problems didn't appear until he was actually a real threat, a real person, rather than just a baby who didn't do much...so around age 1 things were very tough. The problem is that they are feeling they have been replaced and as they take things out on the little ones, they get punished for it, thereby confirming their opinion about themselves and perpetuating the cycle of bad behaviour. (I am really guessing as I don't know your friend, but this is my experience from my own problems with sibling rivalry). He didn't take it out on the little ones on this occasion, but he is probably more fearful of the consequences of this...so perhaps lashes out on other children? In a way it shows some level of consideration that he didn't target the littler children. It could also be that he's having a hard time at nursery. Maybe nursery doesn't suit him. Or maybe that particular nursery doesn't suit him. I wouldn't think it is irritability and boredom to be honest, though he may not suit playing at someone's house. I expect it is going to be worse at his own house, where not only does he have to share him mum, but all his toys too. You then have all the territorial issues on top of everything else.

To really stop problematic behaviour I think you have to get to the core of it and then sort things out from there. Children tend to hit out like that when they are feeling bad about themselves, so I would think that lots of 1 to 1 and focused attention from his mum would help. It really helps in our house. The older ones do have a very hard time when siblings come along. The jealousy has certainly lasted a lot longer than I had anticipated.

Just to add that ignoring bad behaviour is, in my opinion, a pretty blunt tool. If he is doing things for attention, the easiest way to deal with that is to meet his need and give him some attention....in a positive way, not by telling off. If a kid is not getting enough attention, then in their little heads any attention even negative, is better than nothing. Which is pretty sad really. But by ignoring the child it's probably making things worse and he will just do more and more attention seeking stuff.

[new mother]

Very interesting post, CT, thanks

[minder]

Does your friend tell her son that it's not nice behaviour, and then get him to apologise to other child?

If he is articulate and intelligent, saying "sorry" helps.

[reren]

I've just had the experience of watching my brother have a lot of similar issues with his little boy - and it has been quite heartbreaking to see how difficult it has been. He and his wife have tried everything to solve the problems but my nephew (while a lovely kid in many ways) has had some real problems with biting and pushing. His parents couldnt be more gentle or loving - but it seemed to be his way of coping with things when he felt overwhelmed. They thought for a while that he might be on the autism spectrum - but they saw various experts who assessed him and determined that it was not autism but a developmental issue that would eventually resolve itself (like your friends little boy he's very advanced in other areas) In the end the most successful approach has been to give him a lot of attention and time with his parents. They are lucky to have flexible jobs and have been able to take it in turn to drop him off late and pick him up early from nursery - so that he doesnt have too long a day. What i have been struck by is how isolating it has been for my brother and sister in law. They have found it really hard being judged by other parents and unbearable when their son bites or hits another child. In the end they have ended up nevwr socialising with other parents. If you can bear to - do try and see your friend and her little boy and talk to her with understanding. Try really hard not to judge her parenting and just provide some support - she will probably be through this phase in a year or two and will always appreciate and remember that you supported her. If i hadnt watched my brother go through this i know i would have just thought behqviour like my nephews was down to being over indulged / badly disaplined - but i realise now it can be much more complicated.

[Belle]

That's a very helpful post reren (also cuppa tea) - interesting perspectives.

[cuppa tea]

Yes, that's very insightful Reren. I've had a similar experience. Still going through it infact. I have had days of feeling utterly isolated and desperate as dealing with other parents in a social situation, where your child is being aggressive to their child, is just not worth it. It's mortifying at times. Your child tends to be demonised and labelled a 'problem' and it's just too stressful. Noone is really getting anything out of the socialising. My son is very sensitive to how I am feeling and will pick up on any stress and then the situation becomes worse. It is not nice if another child hurts your child, obviously, but what people don't often get is that it is also awful for the person who's child is doing the hurting. They feel bad that the other child is hurt and then they ultimately are responsible dealing and resolving the situation...often having their parenting scrutinised and on full show. I rarely ask people back to our house any more, which I find hard, but my son finds it too difficult at the moment, so I have to go with that. I think it will all pass, as these things usually do. One bonus is that I do have some really, really lovely unjudgemental friends, who accept us for who we are and our children are a good match for each other...so sometimes it all works out. Also my son is much better with older children, particularly older girls. I don't think that same age play is really the most natural way to go about things with little kids.

Edited to say that actually I have found that some of my family have been the most judgmental of all towards my son. Your brother is lucky to have an understanding sibling like you.

[mummynegin]

Thanks Renen and Cuppa Tea. It's helpful to get the perspective of families having to cope with a child that bites/hits other children.

We've had another night of my son waking up crying during the night. He woke up 3 times last night and in the end I ended up "sleeping" on the floor in his room. I use quote marks for "sleeping", because I didn't actually sleep after 3am. When he woke up this morning he kept repeating "Get off, too close" to himself. I now therefore have no doubt that the waking and crying during the night that started on Monday night after my friend and her son came over, is due to my son being bitten and hit by my friend's son. I'm not sure now whether to take my son when I go over to my friend's house in a couple of weeks. We were all going to go, but perhaps my son and husband should stay at home and I'll just go with my daughter.

Minder, in response to your question, my friend tells her son that his behaviour is "not kind" and makes him apologise.

[cuppa tea]

I think if you friendship is not dependent on the children being friends then going on your own may be a solution. After all, if the 3 year olds are going to fight and it is really upsetting your son, then noone is having fun! Was your son very upset at the time of the hitting/biting? Have you asked him how he felt about it? Perhaps you could ask him if he want to go to the next meetup? Even at 3 I still found my son knew who he wanted to play with and who he didn't.

You could choose an outside location? If you are meeting as whole families and your partners are going to be there it may be more manageable as there are more adults per children.

Anyway, just some ideas...

[mummynegin]

My son's reaction at the time was either to ignore it or to have a little cry (when it really hurt him) and then to give his friend a kiss and a cuddle once he said sorry.

I had a talk with my son about why he was upset last night and he said that he was upset about being hurt. I assume he's been dreaming about it, as he has previously had bad dreams about things he's anxious about (eg. when he was scared of monkeys he used to dream about them and wake up crying). When I asked him if he wanted to go [to my friend's son's name]'s house he said yes and got very excited, so he clearly still wants to play with him.

We're planning to go to theirs as a family, so the husbands will be there, which should make it easier to watch the boys.

[cuppa tea]

So it sounds like he's not holding it against your friend's son. I think children are actually much more forgiving that we are, fortunately! If he wants to go, then I would perhaps have at least one person monitoring the kids so that you can prevent him getting hurt. If he's been bitten, then someone hasn't intervened quick enough and sorting it out from there is much harder than preventing it in the first place. In my opinion, I would be very careful to not add to the drama of the whole thing, so you are not adding to his fears. If you have a sensitive child they will pick up on all that and it will fuel their own anxieties. So if something happens, I would perhaps be very matter of fact and comforting, rather than "oh this is awful, it shouldn't be happening, and such and such is really, really mean etc etc!". I have seen this with friends of my son and their parents reactions can make such a difference with the children's friendships and general fear. (I'm not saying you are doing this, because I don't know, but I have seen it happen).

It's very hard when you have one sensitive and placid child and one boisterous and more aggressive one. I think it means you have to be more vigilant than usual. Good luck!

[bkkmei]

Cuppa tea has given some great advice above. My son is, well let's say he's regularly described as a 'live wire' by complete strangers, and has in the past thought it tremendous fun to knock smaller kids over for no reason. Effectively trying to discipline this in public (although of course discipline should be consistent wherever you are, but sometimes it is difficult) plus having a young baby in tow, is tough.

So I have to agree:

- somebody needs to keep an eye on what the kids are up to. It's very difficult to sit back and relax with a cup of tea!

- mutual territory is helpful. My son got tremendously territorial over other kids playing with his toys. One of my friends would bring over one of her son's toys to any playdates, so that there would be a real 'sharing' of toys - a great idea.

Also, if possible, diversion is a good way to defuse a situation if you see it coming. E.g. instead of being aggressive with your son, your friend's child could maybe mock-wrestle with an adult as an outlet. Or an adult suddenly switches to a stupid voice like a robot "Let's - play - a - game - now" "That - was - not - good"

I have to say, I had no problem with another adult telling my son off if it was warranted, and sometimes he listened and obeyed more.

We also put in a few simple rules down for playdates e.g. sharing toys, no pushing/fighting. We repeated them again and again, had to elaborate a bit, stuck to them and did naughty step. Think we're starting to see the benefits now, partly also as he is approaching 4. My son used to be very rough with his (smaller but same age) cousin, but they get on like a house on fire now.

Hope it works out on the playdate!

[sophiechristophy]

This is an excellent book which looks at behaviour from a totally different angle to the suggestions already mentioned. Interesting read for all parents:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Are-What-Feed-Them/dp/0007182252/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314382992&sr=8-1

[Saffron]

I have the book Sophie has recommended above: "They Are What You Feed Them: How Food Can Improve Your Child's Behaviour, Learning and Mood".

I can honestly say it is a fantastic book! I'm happy to lend it, but for any serious readers, you'll probably find that you want to have your own copy so you can refer to it as your child ages.

Rather than offering behavioural advice, this book looks at how micronutrients can affect your child's health, including (as the title suggests!) your child's mood and behaviour. I wouldn't substitute dietary changes for good constructive behavioural modification programs (and I don't think that's what S what suggesting either). However, I would say that if you feel like you need another tool in your parental kit for behaviour, then this is an excellent book, very enlightening, based on research, easy to read, and not patronising.

xx