Blair on Moral Decline

[Huguenot]

Still the brightest bloke in politics

[DJKillaQueen]

The big cause is the group of alienated, disaffected youth who are outside the social mainstream and who live in a culture at odds with any canons of proper behaviour. And here's where I simply don't agree with much of the commentary. In my experience they are an absolutely specific problem that requires a deeply specific solution.

I couldn't have put it better. I have my issues with Blair but he is absolutely spot on in this interview I think.

The left says they're victims of social deprivation, the right says they need to take personal responsibility for their actions; both just miss the point. A conventional social programme won't help them; neither ? on its own ? will tougher penalties.

And this is absolutely my experience of dealing with wayward teens. Their disconnection from the rest of society is rarely because of poverty....and often because of poor literacy, an inability to articulate and a lack of discipline, both from the self and in respect for others.

[Huguenot]

Oooh DJKQ, you make me shiver when you're cool! ;-)

[LadyDeliah]

Tony Blair is a war-mongering toss-pot, who oversaw or made ready, the selling off of the majority of the public assets left after the big Tory sell-off before him, and is therefore not in a position to opine on moral decline!

[StraferJack]

may be true LadyD, but can't fault what he says in this interview

[Undisputedtruth]

What Tony Blair has said is nothing new.

[StraferJack]

  Quote

in the wider scheme of things, this is true. In the last couple of weeks, not enough people of note have said anything like as sensible

[Undisputedtruth]

That's because most people don't understand the issues surrounding young people. Yet some of their knee jerk comments, such as scrapping benefits and/or evictions, were made in complete ignorance.

I welcome TBs article as a foundation for great debate on the riots aftermath.

[pixysunflower]

This is also very insightful, I believe, Gary Younge in The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/14/young-british-rioters-political-actions

[peterstorm1985]

I hated Tony Blair as a politician but as a political thinker he offers sensible observations (not uncommon to find that those who achieved power did have something intelligent to say, buried by the demands of the ballot box).

You can't threaten an entirely disenfranchised group to make them fall into line; there is nothing left to threaten them with that won't cause harm to others. Neither can you bribe (or inspire) them out of bad behaviour, as their wants don't match what can be given.

It is of course a cultural issue; somehow we have to make them want what the rest of us have. Not always easy when we moan so much about our own lives and don't make it sound so appealing.

They need education, not the sort that leads to a handful of certificates but the basics of life and society. It never fails to amaze me that we spend so much time focusing on exam results and yet we let even a single child leave school unable to read, cook basic food, or feel that no one gives a damn about them.

[Brendan]

Once they've done their term of service can't we just shoot them and move on?

[Brendan]

I'm refering to Prime Ministers of course.

[MissNoodlesHats]

"In the last couple of weeks, not enough people of note have said anything like as sensible" SJ... that's spot on and also in itself the thing that's keeping me awake and wondering who the hell do with have in parliament and why?

"It never fails to amaze me that we spend so much time focusing on exam results and yet we let even a single child leave school unable to read, cook basic food, or feel that no one gives a damn about them."

That's inspired too.

[MissNoodlesHats]

.

[StraferJack]

"keeping me awake and wondering who the hell do with have in parliament and why? "

It might keep you awake but not me. For the simple reason that Blair (or anyone else) would be unlikely to say the same thing if he was still in power. You can blame the media if you like, but it's more likely because it wouldn't play well in the polls

Oh for a leader who thinks the right things and tells people to lump it. Sadly with Blair, he used to think the wrong things and then tell people to lump it

[Ridgley]

Brendan wrote

---------------------------------------------

I'm refering to Prime Ministers of course.

David Cameron agreed

DJKQ I have been saying this on a few threads totally agree with you it is not just one issue there so many factors involved. I was quite surprised that Prince Charles picked up on this and David Cameron refuses to.

[Undisputedtruth]

Prince Charles, through his Prince's Trust, knows more about young people and their problems than someone like Cameron who doesn't have a clue.

[Ridgley]

UDT wrote

----------------------------------------------

Prince Charles, through his Prince's Trust, knows more about young people and their problems than someone like Cameron who doesn't have a clue.

Nor does he want to

[DJKillaQueen]

Nor does he want to

Yep that is what is at the heart of Cameron's line. They are not his kids, it's not his neighbourhood and all it will take is the brandishing of a big stick to make the plebs step in line! It's elitist schoolboy twaddle.

[MissNoodlesHats]

Yes good point SJ, of course the polls and therefore the media decide, at least then Gordon tried to the right thing and tell Murdoch to stick it, he should have gone further and ripped them to pieces in parliament when he was PM. Just like the old days when they resisted the Monarchy. Maybe in a few hundred years black rods rod will be a rolled up copy of the SUN !

[MissNoodlesHats]

Wow strafer how right you were, coulson was paid 200000 a year from news international whilst he was working for the coalition ! Christ those MI6 security checks are good ?!?!

[Loz]

I am assuming at this point you know nothing about what security checks entail, AFN.

[MissNoodlesHats]

Er ? Another dead end from you eh loz?

in regard to security as I understand it Coulson was / had undertaken developed vetting which is the highest evel of security clearance. Unsurprisingly this involves detailed financial checks and not logging into to Experian. Previous to this he should have undergone an (SC)) and again this would have covered a financial sweep. The last director of comm's underwent both of these where as Coulson seemed to have been able to avoid the Developed vetting for some time.

It may seem odd to you loz that someone's bank details would be checked but I am afraid to tell you that sometimes people get paid by other foreign powers to spy ! I know shocking but it happens. So financial checks would enable them to ask " excuse me I know you work for the British Government but who is paying the other 200grand? Is that your x employer the Media and business Empire headed by the Murdoch Family? Oh hang on what stories are you putting out to the media about the BSKYB deal, there is no conflict of interest there is there?"

Hang on....corruption at the highest levels ! All that wasted parliamentary time we could have saved had we known that News International had a mole sitting next to our prime minister.

[Loz]

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Er ? Another dead end from you eh loz?

I aim to please, AFN.

> in regard to security as I understand it Coulson

> was / had undertaken developed vetting which is

> the highest evel of security clearance.

That's where you are mistaken. For reasons best known to the Civil Service, they decided that Coulson was to be cleared to SC level.

> So financial checks would enable them to ask " excuse me I know you work for the British Government but who

> is paying the other 200grand?

SC does not entail that level of check. And as the answer for that would have been a plausible 'it's a severance payoff from my previous employer whom you know about already', chances are it wouldn't have raised much of an eyebrow.

[Undisputedtruth]

I think the main point MNH was making was that Coulson was receiving financial benefits from News Internation while being employed in 10 Downing Street. There is a Special Advisor's code of conduct which covers this conflict of interest. I think the main question here should be 'did he break the code of conduct'?