Council Enforcement Officers in Dulwich Park

[PaulDV]

I had 3 Council enforcement officers approach me in Dulwich Park last week to explain about some new dog control order that is due to come in to force in a few months. They showed me a map of some local cemeteries which I would never walk a dog in out of respect and point in the general direction of some areas of the park where it will be ?illegal? to have your dog off the lead. I express my astonishment that you can?t let a well controlled dog off its lead to exercise it in a public park as has been the case since the park opened over 100 years ago! They explained about police involvement, fines and criminal records should dog owners let their dogs off the lead once the new rules are enforced. They were both aggressive, arrogant and dismissive in their attitude. I?m relatively new to the areas so I know I missed the consultantion. I?d be very intersected to see the response but cant seem to find them online. I agree with dogs not being allowed in children?s play areas, picnic areas, cemeteries, fouling etc.... Given the recent tragic attacks and deaths in London along with the terror threat I?d be interested to see if the police are actually going to get involved with this nonsense.

[Jules-and-Boo]

I think the enforecement would be interesting.

Perhaps they'll look at having dogs chipped so all 'off-lead-in wrong-place-dogs' can be scanned and a fine sent to the registered owners.

Rather efficient, but also extremely extreme and I think they would do better to stop uncontrolled dog ownership/ dog fighting/ cruelty to animals etc.

[Robert Poste's Child]

It was made compulsory for all dogs to be microchipped a couple of years back so in theory they can already do that, J&B.

More info on the new order, which is already in force, here: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parks-and-open-spaces/public-space-protection-orders-pspos-regulations

I find this blurb from the Govt website interesting as perception of danger seems to be as important as whether your dog is actually out of control:

'Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

- injures someone

- makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

- it attacks someone?s animal

- the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal'

[JohnL]

Is it this ?

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parks-and-open-spaces/public-space-protection-orders-pspos-regulations

?100 on the spot fine.

[singalto]

There have been notices for years about keeping dogs on short lead in Dulwich park. Dogs can go free on the dog walk around the perimeter of the park. Most people don?t keep their dogs on leads where they should. I saw a dog rummage through a large quantity of rubbish which had been dumped but the owners were totally oblivious. The dog would have eaten all sorts of nasty things.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I've stopped using Dulwich Woods and the nature reserve recently because I find it really annoying that dog owners completely ignore the notices about keeping dogs on a short lead during the bird breeding season.

[Jules-and-Boo]

well that's just rude and exactly the type of behavior that should be fined.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I've had a couple of picnics in the park interrupted by dogs stealing food and / or knocking everything over. I've also had dogs jumping up and barking at me as I jog. The truth is that there are a lot of people who have their dogs off the lead and out of control (not a majority, but still a lot) and it's pretty unreasonable. It's a shame that people aren't all considerate and responsible, but they're not and it should be possible for others to go out their 'park business' unharassed.

[rupert james]

Walking my dog twice a day in the park on weekdays come rain or shine I cannot remember seeing any of what you state happening.

I am sure it must happen at the weekend when the park is jammed but weekdays is a different matter.

Most owners are responsible and keep their dogs under control when off the lead. I for one would not dream of going into Dulwich Park with my dog at the weekend when it gets taken over.

I remember seeing these wardens on their bikes full of self importance. The did seem very full of themselves.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Rupert, you sound like a responsible owner, so good for you, but not everyone is unfortunately. I do Nordic walking and almost every time I'm out at least one loose dog will run up barking, I guess because they're not sure what the poles are about, and I often get friendlier dogs jumping up - none of which is a problem for me as I love dogs, but for someone who didn't it could be intimidating. A couple of weeks ago a big dog off the lead in the nature reserve got quite aggressive and as the owner wasn't in sight I got a bit worried. Several times dogs have grabbed the poles, which is quite funny for me, but wouldn't be if I were an older person using them for stability.

[Abe_froeman]

I think this is a great idea. I only wish they would extend to try to ctach all the filthy dog owners who don't clean up their animals' excrement that blights so many pavements around here.

[Robert Poste's Child]

For anyone who doesn't know already, you can report dog mess here:

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/street-care/dog-fouling

[cazfay]

Hurah. At last! Positive action being taken. There are signs uk which owners ignore, and there is dog exercising track which some owners ignore. So all in all I am really pleased about this. Those who are responsible will take note of the rules and exercise their dogs within those rules. Those who don?t will get a fine.

Some dogs off the lead are a danger to children and park users.

[Earl Aelfheah]

rupert james Wrote:

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> Walking my dog twice a day in the park on weekdays

> come rain or shine I cannot remember seeing any of

> what you state happening.

Oh well, it can't of happened then.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> I do Nordic walking and almost every time I'm out at

> least one loose dog will run up barking

Not unless Rupert has seen it. If he hasn't seen it, it hasn't happened.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Well, maybe he hasn't seen it if he's only going as quieter times.

I'm ashamed to confess that a friend's dog invaded quite a few picnics in Dulwich Park while I was looking after them. So embarrassing.

[Upwind]

I saw a warden speaking to some people outside the caf? one day earlier this week as some owners had their dogs off lead, which could be a problem with people eating outside. He seemed perfectly polite and friendly and took the time to explain why he was asking them to put their dogs on lead.

Rupert, check out the area outside the caf? and around the lake most weekdays between nine and eleven, there are plenty of off lead dogs in an area clearly signposted as on lead. Not saying that any of these dogs are causing problems, but the potential is there with other people's food and/or waterfowl nearby.

[Curmudgeon]

cazfay Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hurah. At last! Positive action being taken. There

> are signs uk which owners ignore, and there is dog

> exercising track which some owners ignore. So all

> in all I am really pleased about this. Those who

> are responsible will take note of the rules and

> exercise their dogs within those rules. Those who

> don?t will get a fine.

>

> Some dogs off the lead are a danger to children

> and park users.

Those who are likely to heed these, IMO ridiculous, rules are the least likely to own untrained dogs in the first place

[ali2007]

I?m totally confused - what are the new regulations? I walk my dog daily on the path in the morning - she is meek and follows at my heel. I always clean up after her. I don?t want to walk the overgrown path in the winter because it?s wet, muddy and honestly as a woman on my own it doesn?t feel safe to walk through undergrowth where you?re not visible to the general public. Honestly I?ve run through some sections realising it can be quite dark even in daytime.

So are we saying that I risk getting a fine for walking the path or risk getting robbed \ raped \ muddy for taking the overgrown path?

This is a public space. If I have understood this correctly, it?s very sad news indeed.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Have you clicked the link above and read the details of the order, ali2007? For our local parks the main points amount to clearing up after your dog, putting it on a lead when asked by an authorised person and keeping it out of the children's play area, plus obeying any existing signs about keeping your dog on a lead in specific areas. Seems reasonsble to me.

I'd love to see more enforcement in Dulwich Woods. Yesterday between 12 and 1 I counted about ten dogs off the lead in the nature reserve, several chasing birds despite the notices about breeding season, There was also a woman on a bike so they could deal with all the other antisocial behaviour as well.

[ali2007]

ahhhh if it?s just an enforcement of the existing signs that indicate where dogs need to be on a lead, I?ve no issue with that.

[rendelharris]

ali2007 Wrote:

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> So are we saying that I risk getting a fine for

> walking the path or risk getting robbed \ raped \

> muddy for taking the overgrown path?

Rather overdramatic, but anyway, no. As noted on another heated thread on here, the road and horse track are not dog-free or on-lead areas so as long as you keep him/her out of the clearly marked no dog or onlead areas you won't be fined.

> This is a public space. If I have understood this

> correctly, it?s very sad news indeed.

Public places need rules, indeed more so than most places. Just because it's a public place doesn't imply the public can do what they want in it. That road in Dulwich Park would be ideal for me to practice timetrialling on, I don't because there are speed rules in place and it would be selfish and stupid to do so. These new dog rules, or rather mainly the enforcement of extant rules, seem a perfectly sensible and proportionate way of balancing the rights and needs of all park users.

[Robert Poste's Child]

ali2007 Wrote:

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> ahhhh if it?s just an enforcement of the existing

> signs that indicate where dogs need to be on a

> lead, I?ve no issue with that.

Or if your dog is, or is thought to be, out of control - which sounds very unlikely in your case! Most decent dog owners wouldn't need to be asked as when you see your dog misbehaving or someone looking worried about them, the first thing you do is call your dog away and/or put it back on the lead. I think the new order is more for the small minority who aren't responsible.

[AllisonAdler]

As someone who regularly walks her dogs in Dulwich Park, I wouldn't mind a bit of clarification. Are the areas in the middle of the park, where it's quite confusing in terms of where dogs can and can't be off lead, now going to be policed? There are several paths with 'dogs should be on lead signs' which cross over paths where dogs seem to be allowed off lead. It's very hard for dogs and owners to negotiate open areas since obviously, dogs can't read, and most quite innocently follow their noses when they're out at play. The pond area, children's play areas, and other sorts of enclosures are very easy to avoid with a well-behaved dog. I should say that I keep one of my dogs on lead everywhere in the park as she's quite mischievous, but my other one is very well-behaved, so when we get into the main part of the park, I generally let her off, and have never had any issues with her.

[pork chop]

There are signs near each entrance stating 5mph max for bicycles. This is very slow - only 1.5 x walking pace. Do any cyclists adhere to this...? Almost none - some belt round at 25mph doing their training sessions.

Will the council be enforcing this rule as well..?