Football Focus

[Jah Lush]

I thought it was a very good England performance. Normally, I find watching England so frustrating but we set our stall out early, passed the ball around well and scored five goals. I know it was only Moldova but games like this have proved to be banana skins in the past. Good performances from the likes of Lampard, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Cleverley but the player who impressed me most was James Milner. I thought he was immense last night. Worked his socks off and got the goal his performance deserved.

[bon3yard]

Hows about this for a ripe old slice of cheddar, "Coming soon on Fox Soccer..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyugtgmcwak

[Annasfield]

"THE TRUTH"

At long last

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19543964

[Parkdrive]

Well, where to start with Englands performance? Dull, dreary, lacking imagination. I'll leave it there. 3rd in the FIFA world rankings? Yeah right.

As for the Hillsbotough disaster, I hope the families and loved ones of those who died finally get closure.

[maxxi]

For Englands woeful display see my earlier post... except to add that England have finaly found a successor to Owen... Wellbeck's dive was just a 'tad' too blatant and dumb but I'm sure he'll work on it.

For Hillsborough: "Strenuous attempts to deflect blame onto fans" and the fact that there were 41 victims who had the "potential" to survive past the coroner's cut-off of 3.15 would seem to make a new inquest an absolute essential.

[Atticus]

A memorable day, Anna. I am so glad for those who persevered.

Thank God the campaign continued.

[Sharon_H]

Annasfield Wrote:

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> "THE TRUTH"

>

> At long last

>

> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/

>

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19

> 543964

At long last indeed.

I can't believe some of the things I'm hearing/reading!

[bon3yard]

That scabby louse kelvin MacKenzies been shaken loose of whatever putrid crevice hes been infesting of late to issue a statement along the lines of "I printed in good faith, it wasnt me Guv, the dog ate my homework etc". Cnut.

[Jah Lush]

Kelvin MacKenzie is a loathsome piece of vermin. I hope there will be closure for all those who lost friends and family. Justice for the 96. Don't buy The Sun.

[Annasfield]

Sharon_H Wrote:

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> Annasfield Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "THE TRUTH"

> >

> > At long last

> >

> > http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/

> >

> >

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19

>

> > 543964

>

>

>

>

> At long last indeed.

>

> I can't believe some of the things I'm

> hearing/reading!

This is the document provided by a Sheffield Press agency that commenced the smear.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/NGN000000010001.pdf

Just staggering

[Otta]

Some of the specifics that have come out today have indeed been shocking. Not surprising exactly, but to see it all there in black & white... Frankly it's amazing they didn't destroy every last one of the files and blame it on a fire or something.

Can't see how they could possibly deny a new investigation now.

[maxxi]

Otta Wrote:

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> Can't see how they could possibly deny a new

> investigation now

And it should be one that carries the weight of possible prosecutions for those who have lied and smeared.

[Otta]

Been reading more and more stuff, and whilst it is absolutely inexcusable what happened that day, and in the days, months and years after, there should be a large portion of blame directed at anpother group.

Had football fans of EVERY club, including Liverpool, not spent years fighting, robbing, smashing stuff up, and acting like general feckin morons, then grounds would never have felt the need to build pens, pitch invasion proof fences, and heard them in like animals.

Of course that DOES NOT excuse any of the terrible mistakes made that day, but it's something you don't often hear mentioned, and I think the fans of that era, and indeed since, should look to themselves a bit too.

And before someone like Atticus jumps down my throat, NO I AM NOT BLAMING THE FANS THAT WERE THERE THAT DAY!!!!!!

[Huguenot]

Totally agree Otta. The tragedy was a product of its era.

[????]

Both Heysel and Hillsborough changed my attitude towards what i'd seen as a bit of a laugh and an adrenaline rush until then and most young fans from the 70s and early 80s have some sort of responsibility agreed Otta, I had a chat with annasf about this once. But the truth should have been out years ago and the police and authorities tried to bury it. As for McKenzie, how he can look at himself in the mirror is beyond me, maggot.

[Otta]

"But the truth should have been out years ago and the police and authorities tried to bury it. As for McKenzie, how he can look at himself in the mirror is beyond me, maggot."

Absobloodylutely! He even came out last night saying the headline should have been "the lies", trying to paint himself as an inocent who'd been fed false information.

The guy who had written the story claims that he never said any of it was fact, but allogations, and questioned McKenzie when he saw "The Truth" headline. Guess we'll never know whether that is true, and it's not surprising everyone is trying to save face now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-19507065

Unsurprisingly the families are now talking about legal action, and I can't blame them. Will be interesting to see who ends up in court...

[Chillaxed]

Sorry Otta, you can't apportion blame to all footy fans on the one hand and then say you're not (in some way) blaming the footy fans there that day on the other. The latter is a subset of the former.

[El Pibe]

He didn't blame All fans, but those fans of EVERY club who took part in the hooliganism, and imo is right to do so.

That whole culture made tragedy an inevitability because of the chronic underinvestment in the sport and the attitude of the authorities. That's not the same thing as saying it was the fault of the people on the day.

[Atticus]

Blame has never been the end-game as far as I'm concerned, it is truth and justice. How those families put up with the 'move-on', 'what justice?', 'professional-victims' tags with such dignity, I will never know. That they persevered despite all this is the only reason the truth finally came out yesterday. Had they 'moved on' or whatever, these revelations would still be hidden and eventually have been forgotten for good.

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure that anything I read in the report was a revelation.

[Otta]

Chillaxed Wrote:

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> Sorry Otta, you can't apportion blame to all footy

> fans on the one hand and then say you're not (in

> some way) blaming the footy fans there that day on

> the other. The latter is a subset of the forme

El Pibe has already explained my post well enough, but just to clarify.

Where any Liverpool fans there that day a bit pissed and lively? Quite possibly, maybe even probably.

Were they responsible for anyone dying? Hell No!

@ Atticus, has anyone ever actually called the families and friends of the victims "professional victims" If so, then that is wrong. What I personally find tasteless is the weird shared grief of people who had nothing to do with it.

Respect the dead? Yes

Support the families in their quest for the truth? Hell yes.

Act like you've lost someone personally? Fuck off!

That is my opinion. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I won't apologise for it.

[Otta]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I'm not sure that anything I read in the report

> was a revelation.

Nothing particularly surprising in terms of who was at fault, but some of the details of the depth of the cover up (the altered police accounts) did surprise me a bit. Also the criticism of the ambulance service.

[Otta]

Going back to Atticus' point about "moving on" (or not), you are quite right that had the families given up the fight, this information wouldn't have been released yesterday (it would have been available in 7 years time). But isn't it just possible that some of them would have found peace and enjoyed a better and happier life?

I think of that poor woman (name escapes me right now) who died recently having never found out where Ian bloody Brady buried her son. Now I can totally understand why she never gave up, but it is a double tragedy that she never found peace in my opinion.

The Hillsborough families will now (quite understandably) fight for legal justice, but it does make you wonder whether they will ever be able to stop fighting and find some peace.

[Annasfield]

No one should have to wait 23 years to find out how one of their loved ones died.

I agree that the fences should never have been there in the first place, but thousands attended football matches every single week penned in and nothing like this happened. Sheffield Wednesday have a lot to answer for in the way that they didn't maintain that ground, along with the FA who continued to use Hillsborough as a venue despite the fact that they had been advised it was a death trap.

I'm surpised that you can say that nothing was a revelation in that report too. I know that some of the families have been amazed at what has been disclosed.

Finally, I don't think anyone is gegging in on grief or whatever you want to call it. Liverpool is a small city and for the regular matchgoers its a real tight knit community. Everyone knows someone who lost someone as either a friend or family. Even the survivors that have had their names smeared for the past 23 years. I'm sure you can begin to understand why you can't help but feel massive empathy for them and want to support them in every way possible.

[Otta]

"No one should have to wait 23 years to find out how one of their loved ones died."

No argument there.

"you can't help but feel massive empathy for them and want to support them in every way possible."

Empathy and support are both good things!