Football Focus

[SCSB79]

Point one - Rangers do not lose their history.

Point two - I'd rather have no history than that of others.

[El Pibe]

Shifting alleigance to MK Dons then huh?

[Mick Mac]

SCSB79 Wrote:

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> Point one - Rangers do not lose their history.

You should speak to Richard Gough about that.

Anyway, I'm sure you will be back in the SPL next year as normal. The old firm games would be a miss.

[SCSB79]

With all due respect to a player who was an amazing servant to Rangers, he doesn't know what he is talking about. The administrators have confirmed that if the SPL grant the transfer of membership from Oldco to Newco that the history and trophies go with them.

The Scottish Mhedia are full of Liewell's pets and are screaming for us to lose our history. We won't. We will always be ahead of the rest and will remain the world's most succesful club.

[Alan Medic]

I might have taken you seriously until you wrote this.

[Undisputedtruth]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> >

> I might have taken you seriously until you wrote

> this.

TBF is his view any different to the Irish who chants "you'll never beat the Irish" in Euro 2012. Perhaps a new song is in order like "we'll be lucky to win a game".

[SCSB79]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> >

> I might have taken you seriously until you wrote

> this.

It's a fact. Like it or lump it.

[StraferJack]

Harry is gone

[ratty]

Indeed

The 65 year-old met Spurs chairman Daniel Levy yesterday after talks over a new contract broke down. Last night, sources suggested the talks, which followed an initial meeting two weeks ago and another discussion earlier this week, had ?not gone well? and that it was extremely likely the manager would leave White Hart Lane

It is understood that Redknapp, who does not want to resign formally, is prepared to leave Spurs if agreement over the final year of his ?3  million-a-season contract can be reached. The talks, which also involved Redknapp?s recently employed agent Paul Stretford and Richard Bevan, the chief executive of the League Managers Association, were continuing last night.

Spurs are likely to turn to David Moyes should Redknapp go. Everton are braced for an approach but the Premier League club remain confident that their manager will resist an offer.

However, Moyes also has only one year left on his contract, which is also thought to be worth around ?3m a year. He might be interested in a move to Spurs given their greater resources and financial muscle.

Wigan Athletic?s Roberto Mart?nez would be another candidate for Spurs ? and might interest Everton should Moyes leave ? along with former Chelsea manager Andre Villas-Boas, who would be interested in joining the north London club.

[ratty]

Let's hope it is the end of the road for the saggy faced money loving judas coont eh?

[Parkdrive]

ratty Wrote:

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> Let's hope it is the end of the road for the saggy

> faced money loving judas coont eh?

And there's me thinking he was everyone's favourite manager. Who's next out the door, Bale, Modric, VDV, King?

[Undisputedtruth]

I thought Harry's days was numbered when Levy questioned why Steven Piennar suddeny played well for Everton. Also, Redknapp attempt to play the media to secure larger transfer fund didn't bode well for him.

[Jah Lush]

Harry was offered a four year deal in January and he turned it down because he thought he was going to get the England job. Now five months later he's asking for a new three deal (through the media) as he only has one year left on his contract. I think Harry talked himself out of the job. As usual with Harry, it's all about Harry. I think Levy questioned his loyalty and called his bluff. He was only offering a rolling one year deal and Harry wanted more. However, if he has gone and nothing is official yet I've got to say I've thoroughly enjoyed the time Harry has been at the club. We've played some superb football but at the end of the day still won nothing. Our blip towards the end of last season could also have been a major contributory factor in his sacking if indeed he has been. I hope Levy knows what he's doing and has someone up his sleeve to take us to the next level. I certainly do not want another Juande Ramos situation even if he did win us the League Cup it was largely Martin Jol's side. Jol shouldn't have gone either.

There are also rumours going around that Spurs are about to be bought by some very rich Arabs. Perish the thought. Maybe they didn't fancy him either. I'll miss Harry I've enjoyed the ride. Fcuk knows what will happen to us now. COYS!

[firth]

Mind the sack

[Otta]

I quite like Harry, but in this, I'm glad someone has called his bluff. I don't like the way he acts the victim to the media.

[Mick Mac]

SCSB79 Wrote:

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> With all due respect to a player who was an

> amazing servant to Rangers, he doesn't know what

> he is talking about.

To be honest - he is the first Rangers person I have heard who knows exactly what he is talking about. Putting aside the club/history point, he is spot on about tax avoidance and the implications. For many Rangers fans it seemed to be something they thought they could walk away from. You mentioned yourself at one stage that HMRC were set to accept 10p in the ?, and Rangers would continue.

That was never going to happen, tax avoidance, defrauding the government is one of the highest crimes in this country. Individuals and the club will each pay a high price.

Putting aside club rivalry, I'm completley in favour of people being locked up for this and I'd be surprised if David Murray as club chairman was unaware of the practices being undertaken. People blaming Craig Whyte, who recently took over the club, are missing the point that these practices were taking place over a ten year period and someone else is clearly responsible.

It will be a very interesting road ahead, from a tax avoidance perspective.

[Jah Lush]

Mick Mac Wrote:

> It will be a very interesting road ahead, from a tax avoidance perspective.

Harry's severance pay will be ?3 million - which after tax will be about.... ?3 million.

[Mick Mac]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> Mick Mac Wrote:

>

> > It will be a very interesting road ahead, from a

> tax avoidance perspective.

>

> Harry's severance pay will be ?3 million - which

> after tax will be about.... ?3 million.

I was going to mention Harry. He seems to be the only person in the country for whom tax avoidance is judged to be completely acceptable. Just another funny old game.

[Alan Medic]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > >

> > I might have taken you seriously until you

> wrote

> > this.

>

> TBF is his view any different to the Irish who

> chants "you'll never beat the Irish" in Euro 2012.

> Perhaps a new song is in order like "we'll be

> lucky to win a game".

Is this you being witty UDT?

[Alan Medic]

SCSB79 Wrote:

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> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > >

> > I might have taken you seriously until you

> wrote

> > this.

>

>

> It's a fact. Like it or lump it.

Most successful club in Scotland yes, in the world no way. It's like comparing your 200 lira to my ?199 and saying you are richer. It's just a silly claim, because if I told you of a club who had won 300 trophies in outer Mongolia, you wouldn't recognise it. It's only Mongolia (outer).

[Mick Mac]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> SCSB79 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Alan Medic Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > >

> > > I might have taken you seriously until you

> > wrote

> > > this.

> >

> >

> > It's a fact. Like it or lump it.

> Most successful club in Scotland yes,

Sorry? Declan, you turncoat.

[woodrot]

this is a direct C&P from soemwhere else, but interesting take on the Ranger scanrio

" his has been a remarkable day, which could change Scottish football forever, but any celebrations are premature. Many had hoped for Rangers' liquidation but I suspect most privately believed that the club would somehow get away with it.

t all depends how quickly BDO (HMRC's liquidators) are officially appointed and whether they deem Green's bid for the assets a fit and proper one. Bear in mind that not many folk will be offering ?5.5 million for assets consisting of a football stadium in largely valueless (and potentially contaminated) land, a training facility which Sport Scotland have first dibs on. The players are all now free to leave for nothing. Charles Green has been talking complete drivel about TUPE law- he's been trying to claim that the liquidated Rangers squad will automatically transfer to his newco. This is garbage. the players have no such obligation. Green is an obvious carpetbagger and it is remarkable that someone with such a tenuous grasp of business law has talked his way into a position as a would-be "saviour" of Rangers. The stuff about simply transferring contractual agreements to a newco is surely fantasy-players are in it for themselves and will want to maximise their income rather than take a gamble on possibly ending up in Div 3 on vastly reduced wages. How BDO act as soon as they take control will be criticial with regard to the assets.

Duff and Phelps (the bizarre Craig Whyte appointed Rangers) and Green will clearly have a well worked out scenario for a NewCo. Indeed it could be argued that their actions have actively encouraged such a scenario. Now that we're in the NewCo situation these plans will already be rolling. Green will be aware that Rangers' court action (where the Buns took the SFA to the Court of Session over a tribunal ruling which slapped a 12 month transfer ban on them) has hugely annoyed fellow SPL chairmen and I suspect a hectic round of shuttle diplomacy lies ahead of Green this weekend.

D&P, for their part, will possibly be having a quiet glass of champagne. they can legitimately present themselves as having "tried their best" and will shortly walk away from the whole catastrophic trainwreck millions richer- and perhaps only slightly worried about the nature of BDO's forensic investigation.

If the SPL don't demote Rangers now, they never will. The vote is very uncertain. The Dundee United and Hibs chairmen seem likely to vote no, who knows which way Vlad and the Lithuanians will go, let alone Celtic. Celtic are now in an impossible position here- piss off their fans, or badly damage their income streams. I suspect that they will see which way the debate is going before finally deciding. St. Mirren are also a doubt, whilst the intentions of the two Highland clubs are very uncertain. OldCo Rangers can have a vote in this process. It is bizarre to say the least. It's pretty obvious that Kille and St. Johnstone have resolved to vote Yes, sadly, although Sky's reassurance that they will not withdraw from Scottish football if Rangers really have kicked their last ball may weaken their seemingly resolved positions.

Where do Rangers go from here? Although the OldCo is now on the mortuary slab they still have a few canny moves ahead- some more emollient press, some negotiation with SPL counterparts, and hopefully (for them) a favourable vote on Monday. Nothing's decided until then, remarkable as today's events have been.

I think there is enough doubt amongst enough SPL chairmen to stymy Rangers in the coming vote. Then we're in the state where a NewCo has to apply for SFL3 and I think there's little doubt how that would go. I wonder if the likes of Spartans would even bother applying if a viable newco was in the hunt for the place. There is some doubt about that too, with the possibility of multiple "new Rangers" emerging in the weeks ahead, if the SPL vote goes against them.

Rangers fans opinion is hardening somewhat against Green and there are rumours of further "investors" not connected with Green's "consortium" planning to outbid him for Ibrox and Murray Park, Rangers training complex in Milngavie. Green is briefing the press that the transfer of the assets for ?5.5 million to what appears a rather cloudy "consortium" is a formality- it's no such thing. The assets must be auctioned off by the liquidators and who knows what that will smoke out from dark corners of the Scottish business world. Incidentally, Murray Park is as valueless as Ibrox in terms of housing/retail/industrial development. The complex is on a flood plain and is also on green belt land, so you can forget about building anything on it. Plus, legally, SportScotland, who helped to fund the complex, have first dibs on it in the event of Rangers going under, at a cost (I believe) of ?4million.

With old Rangers liquidated, the outcome of the Big Tax Case (that could see Rangers liable for a further ?75million to HMRC), SFA appellate tribunals (who, after the Court of Session referred the matter of Rangers' punishment back, having struck down the transfer ban, now seem to be faced with a choice of suspension or expulsion, with FIFA and UEFA watching closely) and an SPL enquiry still to come into the matter of dual contracts and potentially illegal payments to players, are all still pending. However as yet it is not clear if a new company will be liable for the sins of the old- I suspect not.

This saga has been rumbling on for well over a year now and today's news is far from the end, but maybe the end of the beginning. Crunch time has been reached and there is nowhere for the SPL to hide anymore. They have to make a decision on Monday or risk becoming even more of a laughing stock, if that's possible.

Two other points:

1. Rangers will never play in England, even if the English wanted them. UEFA will never sanction such a move. Talk of the Old Firm playing in England is just fantasy for that reason and a waste of time. Though, ironically, Rangers and Celtic have both had once-a-season-borefests about needing to go down south for their own good- now, with Rangers at the very brink of extinction, apparently their demise will "irreparably damage Scottish football". Aye, right.

2. Those complaining at people "revelling" in the demise of Rangers and saying it's not on- clearly you've never spent a Saturday afternoon in a small Scottish town where the local SFL club has to subsist on sub 1,000 gates, whilst coachloads of local gloryhunters leave for Ibrox and Parkhead. The OF are an absolute cancer on Scottish football. The greed of the Old Firm, their leading role in establishing the absolutely disastrous SPL at the end of the 1990s (with ten willing accomplices- Scottish's football's ills can't all be blamed on the OF), their self-obsession and avarice with regard to TV money, the torn faced "bit wir a gloabil braaaaaaaannd" arseholes (no one in England cares about the OF anymore, let alone anywhere else- that ship has sailed) the sycophantic "succulent lamb" journalists that choke the Glasgow media, the open contempt that Rangers in particular have had for every other club in Scotland- well, karma's a bitch. I'm not jumping about my room at Rangers demise, I'm certainly not going to waste my time mourning their passing, either- if that's what is to happen. "

[maxxi]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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>

> There are also rumours going around that Spurs are

> about to be bought by some very rich Arabs. Perish

> the thought.

Just be thankful the rumours aren't of some rich Far Eastern Magnate who might try a 'Cardiff' and insist on rebranding Spurs so that they wear red!

[SCSB79]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> SCSB79 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > With all due respect to a player who was an

> > amazing servant to Rangers, he doesn't know

> what

> > he is talking about.

>

> To be honest - he is the first Rangers person I

> have heard who knows exactly what he is talking

> about. Putting aside the club/history point, he is

> spot on about tax avoidance and the implications.

> For many Rangers fans it seemed to be something

> they thought they could walk away from. You

> mentioned yourself at one stage that HMRC were set

> to accept 10p in the ?, and Rangers would

> continue.

>

> That was never going to happen, tax avoidance,

> defrauding the government is one of the highest

> crimes in this country. Individuals and the club

> will each pay a high price.

>

> Putting aside club rivalry, I'm completley in

> favour of people being locked up for this and I'd

> be surprised if David Murray as club chairman was

> unaware of the practices being undertaken. People

> blaming Craig Whyte, who recently took over the

> club, are missing the point that these practices

> were taking place over a ten year period and

> someone else is clearly responsible.

>

> It will be a very interesting road ahead, from a

> tax avoidance perspective.

The fact that you quite obviously do not know what you are talking about means this post should be laughed at in the way it deserves to be.

Tax avoidance is completely legal. Tax evasion is not.

Everybody who earns a good buck will look to avoid as much tax as they can - including your manager, ex manager and high profile players. Google "Neil Lennon Film Financing" and see for yourself.

So your point at trying to tarnish Rangers as some government defrauding illegal outfit is null and void.

I guess that you'll have read up so much on this issue as most Rangers-hating, obsessed Celtic fans have and have found that MIH administered the EBT's for Rangers. MIH offered the advice and ran the scheme. Rangers paid ?500k a year for this service, all of which is disclosed in the company accounts. So, is it "Rangers" that are at fault?

I am not for a minute condoning the actions. Obviously someone, somewhere has been up to no good and they should be brought to task over it.

Plus - as most fans of SPL teams do, you forget (deliberately not mention) that there are two very different issues that have caused Rangers demise. The main one isn't the Tax Case from HMRC, which (as you know) we have yet to be found liable for, it is the fact that a conman came in, bought us with a view to make a quick buck, then deliberately withheld ?millions from the HMRC in tax over the period of 18 months or so. One man. Craig Whyte. Came in, fired the board, took out almost all of the old regime and got to work on his plan. He made the decision not to pay tax, not RFC. This is why Rangers fans want his head on a stick.

We also recognise that there has been an almighty fu*k up in regards to the EBT's - but the two are totally different issues.

Anyway - Scottish football without Rangers is fu*ked. If the rumours are to be believed, a few SPL chairmen have had recent discussions with their banks with a warning on their finances if Rangers aren't in the SPL.

Personally, I'd love to see us in Div 3.

[Mick Mac]

Yes - junior terminology error on my part. But its tax avoidance until the Courts decide its evasion. Which HMRC are confident they will.