help me please...cool mums

[OtAcaciaRP....]

Perhaps she enjoy writting why not to write a book. have she done it already!

[wd152]

Wow! I have come back onto this thread for the first time since posting, I've had some nice PM's land in my inbox but I'm new to the forum posting business and didn't realise the thread had gained such interest, positive and not so....

I'm very sorry if what I posted has offended some people, that was not my intention. Perhaps the use of the word "cool" was a little ill judged but wasn't meant to be as inflammatory as it seems it was. "Cool" is subjective and so I would hope that you all feel that way. I am not attempting to create a "cool gang" (louloulabelle).

I'm not a "wind up" (The Nappy Lady) nor am I writing a book (OtAcaciaRP).

I love my little boy and I love being his Mummy. He is clearly the "most important thing in my life"....that goes without saying.

Henry (my 7 month old son) and I are new to the area and I simply wanted to meet some Mums with similar interests...I am an actor and director and work mainly as a drama teacher and practitioner for young people now (hence the creative aspect).

I have a slight aversion to Mum and baby groups. My experience has been that people ask about child related topics e.g breast feeding, labour and sleeping before first names have even been exchanged and I find that difficult. My aim was to meet mum's that want to enjoy time with their children, allow their children to meet and socialise with others but without the constraints of feeling like the pervading topic of conversation has to be the babies. Clearly we will at times revert to common themes of parenting but if we start with a different intention it can't be a bad thing can it?

Apologies for any offense I may have caused. Thank you for all the supportive comments and private messages.

[ClareC]

Well said wd152 and welcome to ED.

The Family room is a pretty friendly place and a fantastic way to meet other local mums. I totally understand where your coming from with the 'talk' at parent and baby groups, however, think this may in a lot of cases be common ground and an ice breaker just to start a conversation. Course this isn't the case in all cases!

I think a lot of mums do lose confidence and can find it hard to infiltrate the various groups, search 'I love biscuits' and you will find a thread that makes for an interesting read.

My daughter is nearly 19months and my son is 3mths, I can honestly say before going on maternity leave I knew only a handful of people locally and was (I'm ashamed to admit) scared I would have nothing in common with what I saw as a stereotypical ED mum. I've yet to meet the stereotype...... I have however met a fantastic group of ladies locally who are good company pushing a buggy round the park, chatting over coffee and cake and (thankfully) drinking cocktails and wine on nights out! I've met mums who I can honestly say I would be friends with and enjoy their company even in the absence of all having children of a similar age..... That has simply been the catalyst to meet!

Good luck, I'm certain you will find a great group of mums :-)

Unfortunately im not in the slightest bit arty, would only describe myself "cool" when skiing without my mid layer and do on occasion talk about kids...... On the positive side I am definitely interested in good conversation, having fun and having an identity as an individual that happens to have kids rather than just another ED mum with a too big buggy and 4x4 ;-) Feels like a lonely heart column now but what I am awkwardly saying is I don't meet your specification but that aside, if you fancy meeting up for a cuppa (and can deal with a demanding toddler joining us) would be lovely to meet you :-)

[Mathilda]

Hi wd152. Your initial post was a little intimidating so its good to have to backstory!

I agree with ClareC though, the conversation about child related topics is often an ice breaker. Also people at baby groups are often more "colleagues" to start with and so naturally talk about their current job of looking after a baby, and compare notes. But you can move on to become friends over time. So hang in there, you will find plenty of cool mums in ED.

[Saffron]

Hi wd152. Good to see you're taking it all good naturedly and with a grain of salt! For what it's worth, there are occasionally 'wind ups' on the Forum, and I think there has been at least one case of a journalist in disguise using the Forum for fodder without telling people what was up.

In light of your additional comments, I think I can see the original post for the black humour that it was. (You'll have to pardon me though as my sense of humour has been severly crimped by a year-and-a-half of broken nights! ...and there's a thread on that too ;-))

I think there are a lot of undercover cool mums in ED and surrounding areas. Mums who are pushing Bugaboos out of necessity, mums who buy Benefit Cosmetics and hope they will do miracles (self most definitely included), mums who wear trainers b/c their feet hurt, mums who look longingly at their skinny jeans that still don't fit and opt for chinos instead, mums who wish their hairbrush was a magic wand, mums who don't even have time to brush their hair... you get the pic.

Dig a little deeper and there are a lot of cool and interesting mums (and dads arounds). Welcome to the ED Forum. Hope you make some super cool friends. xx

[Josiehendrick]

I don't think your post was offensive at all and anyone who took it so is obviously feeling intimidated by the word 'cool' which is kind of silly since we've left school now ;)

I completely know what you mean. I too am pregnant (although not due for a long while) and scared sh*tless about turning into an East Dulwich yummy mummy. Not because there's anything wrong with them, or because I think I'm too cool, I'm just worried there aren't any local mums who would want to meet and talk about something other than baby poo and other stuff I don't even understand yet!

So, when I'm a little closer to my due date, I'd love to meet up with other mums/mums to be who of course, love their children but don't want to forget who they were before they became mummy!

[Moos]

Why do we have to put labels on each other? Sorry Josie, I know you meant no offence and I mean none to you, but why use that tired old put-down "yummy mummy"? I don't even know what it means any more. It used to mean the Liz Hurley type, then it seemed to come to mean a middle class mum who was brand-obsessed, spoilt, mannerless... you seem to be using it to mean a boring baby-focused mum.

By all means be the woman you want to be, and I'm all for celebrating that women have identities beyond motherhood but let's be true feminists and support one another's choices and approaches. If your kids are your life and that makes you happy then bless you and good luck to you. There are enough people out there happy to put mothers down without doing it to each other.

[Pickle]

Well said Moos.

It's very well talking now about what you'll be like before you've had your baby - you may be surprised at how your views change once you have a baby to look after, as even if it's only for a few months you too may find you suddenly talk about poo :)

[hellosailor]

Pickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well said Moos.

>

> It's very well talking now about what you'll be

> like before you've had your baby - you may be

> surprised at how your views change once you have a

> baby to look after, as even if it's only for a few

> months you too may find you suddenly talk about

> poo :)

Couldn't agree more - was with a friend the other day who held her baby aloft to do the classic sniff of the bum to see if her nappy needed changing and she burst out laughing and said ' I swore I'd never do that when I was pregnant...!' - I think it's just possible you may surprise yourself by finding that you talk about poo as much as the next woman when your baby arrives Josie ;-)

[bluesuperted]

Pickle, that's exactly what I wanted to say: I remember telling someone, adamantly whilst pregnant, that I would still be thinking about me, talking about me, not 'just' a mum. But when the baby comes... Well, nothing can prepare you, and now I know I'm a woman made of many parts... But being a mother now factors and filters through all of them. And I'm not ashamed of it! It doesn't mean I only talk poo, but on some deep level, I changed and my identity changed, never to return to being just 'me' again.

And now off to bed, hopefully not to be woken every hour like last night :S

[helena handbasket]

I think you could do a lot worse than end up as one of the lovely mothers of East Dulwich.

I am constantly amazed by their capacity to surprise. This is one group of women you should never underestimate.

Poo.

[cuppa tea]

Yes, I agree - ED is generally a lovely community of women. I've made some amazing friends here

and had a sense of belonging like nowhere else. It's worth scratching behind the surface of people.

[mima08]

I find this thread quite funny: I moved to ED exactly because I did (and still do) think that the people are "cool". I knew I wanted to have my baby in a place where people really care about their families and there is loads to do with kids. I did not want to be somewhere where children are never seen outside and mums get angry stares in a cafe/restaurant/pub if their baby cries or even worse, are not allowed in!

As for my conversation topics? As people said before, you'd be surprised how your perspective changes, especially in the first few months. And it is very funny how you can have a in-depth intellectual discussion about any topic at the same time as comparing notes on babies poo/eating/sleeping/behaviour...

And finally, as well as an icebreaker, I guess for me a lot of the baby chat is also about reassuring myself that what LO & I go through is normal - I guess it would need a very self-assured mother who did not have doubts and worries and therefore did not want to compare notes with others....

[Yak]

I think there's a very good reason why pregnancy lasts 9 months, Josiehendrick - it took me at least 6 months to get used to the fact that I was pregnant, let alone that I might be a mother! That was just way way too far into the distance for me to contemplate.

I swore I would not turn into a manic obsessive over prams, naps, wee or poo. I swore I would always travel light and not look like an overburdened camel crossing the plains of the Sahara desert. I swore I would do one non-baby activity every day. I swore I would keep up to date in my professional field of work. I swore a lot. But once the baby popped out and I had this incredibly needy little bundle on your hands, things do change. But you do retain a sense of your own identity. I've made fantasic friends with other parents - many through this forum - and equally continue to have fun with friends who were friends before I became a mother, if you see what I mean. No reason why you can't have both! You just need to juggle stuff around your little one. And use the forum if ever you have a crisis about why your baby seems to be weeing for Britain ;-).

[sillywoman]

I think josiehendrick may look back on her post in the months to come with a very wry smile. But we've all been there pre-children, and as clearly we'll be welcoming her to the 'yummy mummies' set very shortly - whether she thinks she will be or not (Yes Josie - you too will be discussing poo, amongst other, much less interesting things) - we should cut her some slack.

May I say though Josiehendrick; your comment that "anyone who took it (the original OP as offensive) so is obviously feeling intimidated by the word 'cool' which is kind of silly since we've left school[/i now "gives away that you've clearly not stood in a school playground with other parents of your peergroup recently. If you had you might well have realised that the politics of playgrounds never, ever changes no matter whether you're 7 or 37 and the same things that mattered when we were all at school matter all over again once we're back in the playground. Really, we don't grow up as much as you might think. Butu I guess this is stuff you'll discover for yourself in the years ahead.

Good luck with your baby, I hope for it's sake that you can embrace your inner yummy-mummy and allow yourself to become a very different person from the one you are before baby, because that's how nature enables babies to survive and thrive.

[Saffron]

Wow, sillywoman, I couldn't feel more differently to that! But, Josiehendrick, it just goes to show what a tremedous variety there is in mothers (and mothers-to-be).

Of course no one can truly know the future for herself or others. One thing is for certain though, the more reasonable you make your goals, the more likely you are to acheive them.

Allowing yourself to be defined by your child/ren doesn't necessarily mean losing yourself in the process (unless you decide you want that). It's just another part of your story. xx

[MOTHERSMEETINGS]

I think you should all check out this site www.mothers-meeting.com THE WORLDS COOLEST MUMS!!!!

We have taken alot of time and energy tracking down cool mums for you!!! x x

[Saffron]

MOTHERSMEETINGS Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you should all check out this site

> www.mothers-meeting.com THE WORLDS COOLEST

> MUMS!!!!

> We have taken alot of time and energy tracking

> down cool mums for you!!! x x

Well thank goodness for that... more time for drinking wine and visiting galleries now ;-)

[hellosailor]

>

>

> Well thank goodness for that... more time for

> drinking wine and visiting galleries now ;-)

snarf! :)

[sillywoman]

I am suprised Saffron - which bit in particular, or was it everything I said?

I must come clean - I'm one of the women who did find the OP offensive. Of course she has since explained her meaning more fully and it clarified that the way it read (to me) wasn't how it was meant. So I no longer felt offended, but josiehendrick re-arroused that feeling all over again by her derogative use of "east dulwich yummy mummy"& suggesting that they've forgotten who they were before they had children.

These "Yummy Mummy"s are very close to my heart (though I can't claim to be one as I don't consider myself to be "yummy" enough). I see them all the time & a cooler, kinder, more considerate, fun loving, witty, intelligent and compassionate group of women you could never meet. Of course they've changed from the person they were before they had babies. Nature designs it that way with a bucket load of hormones so that the small piece of the future of humanity that they're creating has the best chance of survival. They don't forget who they were before, it's just that something much more important is occupying them for the moment. The poo discussions are part of that.

If you were making a machine to save the world wouldn't you need to discuss the minutiae with other engineers? When you go away from home to college or university you don't forget who you were before you left, you just have something much more exciting to discuss with your new friends who are experiencing the same things at the same time. It's difficult to relate that to those back home who aren't sharing it with you. Well I see childbirth and caring for new babies in the same light. It's a life changing event & for a while it can be all-absorbing. That doesn't mean you are 'less cool'. It means you're a great Mum. To my mind allowing yourself to become absorbed by baby-world for a bit is a good thing. It's true that as time moves on it's nice to rediscover who you were, but I strongly feel that any pressure to hurry that process, or dismiss the baby-time as 'uncool' is bowing to the media promoted vision of the celebrity Mum who is back with her personal trainer by day 2, and out partying by day 5. Women need that time to come to terms with the hugely important and precious (yes and often mind numbing) new job that they've taken on, poo talk is a crucial part of that,providing as it does, an insight into a baby's general health & digestion - what's normal & what isn't.

I could go on - it's something I feel strongly about (can you tell?). I'll stop now. But MOTHERSMEETINGS you've wasted all your time and energy as far as I'm concerned - the WORLDS COOLEST MUMS are right here in East Dulwich & they are discussing poo amongst many other things. I hope that the OP and josiehendricks will find that out for themselves in time.

[KattyKit]

Here hereSillywoman - I agree with you! I hate the way the yummy mummy tag is used to devalue motherhood and portray mothers and motherhood as one dimensional and vacuous - it's as if it is not enough to 'just' be a mother we must also be sexy / creative / cool as well.

This thread is interesting in the context of Sophiechristophy's post about Naomi's Stadlen's new book about how motherhood is framed both by the media (yummy mummy / cool mummy - which really is just to market motherhood as a lifestyle and get us to but stuff) and by ourselves - 'scared' of being labeled as a woman who 'only' talks about her experiences as a mother.

I am taking Stadlen slightly of out context here but she says ''For too long, mothers have let other people dominate the way motherhood is framed and seen and now, for the first time, there is a much bigger generation of mothers who are educated to question all these things that have been said about them. But they don't.'' Let's start now - by banning the yummy mummy and cool mummy labels and supporting eachother in motherhood and celebrating it, and us, as mothers - surely it is what we deserve!! xx

[The Nappy Lady]

Speaking as one who is emerging from the other side.....

My best friends still tease me during moments of Mummy chaos with the words 'it's not going to change my life' which I was heard to say whilst pregnant with my first!

My hubby says he 'lost' me for a year at least with each baby, no resentment, but I do kind of give every bit of myself over to the experience. Now my youngest is almost 3 & I'm rediscovering the old me, but with so many more dimensions to my character. I've lost nothing (apart from the old figure!) through motherhood, but gained so much.

Ladies, dont be afraid to embrace every moment with both arms, even if it means talking about lack of sleep or dirty nappies. In your entire life this phase is so brief and you will be moving on before you know it. I don't care what title you stick on me, I'm a Mummy, and a wife, and a person in my own right and I'm proud of every part of what makes me the person I am (& believe me I've talked about a lot of dirty nappies in my time)!

[Saffron]

Leaving aside labels and semantics for a moment, women all undertake motherhood differently. Motherhood will change you, as any great life event does. But it doesn't have to consume you (unless you want it to do so).

The fear of losing one's identity in motherhood is not an uncommon one. Long before Stadlen and other modern authors, Kate Chopin tackled this subject eloquently in her poignant short novel 'The Awakening'. Her protagonist character Edna expresses it succintly, '"I would give up the unessential; I would give my money, I would give my life for my children; but I wouldn't give myself. I can't make it more clear; it's only something which I am beginning to comprehend, which is revealing itself to me."'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Awakening_(novel)

http://chopin.thefreelibrary.com/Awakening-and-Selected-Short-Stories/1-16

Indeed for many women, the need to maintain a sense of self is quite strong, and the loss of that sense can result in long-term depression and in some cases a diminished ability to care for her children. Evolution did design us to care for babies, but it did not design us all to do so in the same style. The issue is not black and white, but like so many things in nature, it is a continuum with the capcity to sustain many shades inbetween, while the extremes of either end of the continuum can be counter-productive. No benefit is gained by telling someone where she will or won't land on that contiuum. The power to make that choice remains with the individual.

--

And returning now to semantics... I aksed my husband what his definition of a 'yummy mummy' is, and would he be insulted if someone said I was/wasn't one? He said a 'yummy mummy' is a 'MILF', and then he waggled his eyebrows in a suggestive manner and went back to watching football. So here we are ladies, hefting our metaphorical rocks up and down the hill, while it seems the blokes may have a completely different take on it altogether.

[hellosailor]

>

> And returning now to semantics... I aksed my

> husband what his definition of a 'yummy mummy' is,

> and would he be insulted if someone said I

> was/wasn't one? He said a 'yummy mummy' is a

> 'MILF', and then he waggled his eyebrows in a

> suggestive manner and went back to watching

> football. So here we are ladies, hefting our

> metaphorical rocks up and down the hill, while it

> seems the blokes may have a completely different

> take on it altogether.

It's true - the term yummy mummy means different things to different people, when it was first coined by the media about a decade ago, if I remember rightly, it was very tongue in cheek and almost an admiring/appreciative term, and now seems to be used solely in a derogatory way

Wikipedia definition yummy mummy

Urban Dictionary definition of yummy mummy

[sillywoman]

Well saffron that was very eloquently put but I think I must be a bit dumb because I'm still not sure which bit of my OP you disagreed so vehemently with? I think you're saying maybe you don't disagree but rather you read my post one way when I meant it another? Hence the semantics comment? Not sure.

Anyway I think I agree with what you've just posted so beautifully. Surely no-one sane would suggest that total submission of self could ever be a good thing in the long term, but is also surely a fairly necessary thing following the crucible of childbirth & through the early weeks? This time can leave many women struggling with both the shock of what has happened to them, the intensity of their feelings (one way or the other) & the balancing of their new identity and their old one - a period of grieving for their old life is common. It's tough enough, being told by someone who hasn't yet been through the process that they are no longer 'cool' & that she doesn't want to become one of them just because they are going through this process in the best way they can (by discussing it with others on a similar continuum) is surely unhelpful in the extreme - Semantics or no semantics?

And wherever Josiehendrick finds herself on the continuum of needing to maintain sense of self I am willing to lay money she'll be spending at least some time discussing poo, possibly smiling wryly as she does so.