Youth offenders unit moving to east dulwich rd

[ianr]

> No one in their right mind can honestly say that they are alright with the prospect of some of Southwarks biggest criminals travelling

> down to ED on a daily basis

What are they going to do here?

[StraferJack]

there has been some barking posts on here recently, but james84's post there takes some beating

[DJKillaQueen]

No James84 (my post was directed at James Barbers unsubstantiated claims btw), I do happen to really believe there is no issue with the unit being in this area and have reasons to back that view up. Youth offenders are not Southwarks biggest criminals. Their misdemeanors range from low level vandalism to burglary. Dangerous teens are locked up in secure units, like all dangerous criminals.

Not arguing for arguments sake at all...but giving a perspective from my own experience of dealing with teens that are offenders and currently under the probabtion service. Surely an informed view is to be welcomed in light of some of the scaremongering above.

[edresi10]

no

[Tarot]

The old toilet building on Peckham Rye would serve the purpose.

Although tags on all of them would be better than reporting to a probation officer,the majority of offenders dont take notice of them either.

Being confined at home would be better,and most tag wearers find it embarrassing,a little ridiculing of these numbskulls

is whats needed.

Stocks maybe,pictures on the t.v. Remember the old Police five programme,

No special treatment, like clubs and things to do,they are not special,or deprived,just lazy thieving nasty gits.

They cant even talk properly,so if they cannot pronounce the words properly how can they read and write,and if they cant read and write how can they educate themselves for a better life.Innit get me,

[james84]

Fair enough DJ I can see your point, but no one can honestly say to me that they arent in the slightest bit disturbed at the prospect of having the majority of Southwarks convicted burglars ( alot of who are reoffenders) travelling into an area of East Dulwich where there is opportunity all around. Its like putting a jar of sweets in front of a child and saying dont eat any of them. Please dont twist the words, I fully appreciate that this thing has to go somewhere, but you cant ask or expect me to be happy about the prospect, that the very guys who potentially burgle me one day, could be 200 metres down the road the next signing with the probation team.

[DJKillaQueen]

Ah ok...now we get to the real fear...teenage burglars. There are already teenage burglars in the area and in my experience most teenage burglars are opportunists. They look for portable items that are easy to steal and carry, and more often than not steal from those they know. There is no reason think that there will suddenly be a spike in burglary. That is not the evidence from the current location of the unit either. Those attending the unit have no reason to hang around and like I say, most of them are on probation with serious consequences if they reoffend.

[james84]

DJ you really would argue that black is white wouldnt you, just for the sake of teh argument.

You just said it yourself, burglars on teh whole are opportunists, so why would we want to give them the opportunity by bringing them down to ED and giving them the opportunity to be opportunists in what is a relatively affluent neighbourhood, rich pickings. To be honest where the current unit is located is hardly comparable to ED in terms of opportunity now is it. Burgling one house in ED is going to be pretty profitable on average as opposed to where the current unit is based. And yes given recent events frankly I dont want my wife walking the streets with my daughter in the day with those type of criminals in the area.

[DJKillaQueen]

You haven't read a single word of what I wrote have you. Teenage burglars do not tend to go out of their way to burgle well securred houses in leafy areas. There is absolutely no evidence to back up your fear. Most of these kids are low level petty theives or vandals and I think it's really sad if you think you need to fear walking the streets. You already do walk amongst low level thieves and vandals. Tell me....do you have the same fear of the Harris Boys Academy.....crikey that's bringing almost 900 teens to the area when full....?

[RosieH]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They cant even talk properly,so if they cannot

> pronounce the words properly how can they read and

> write,and if they cant read and write how can

> educate themselves for a better life.Innit get me,

*Implodes*

(edited, missed off my asterisks)

[james84]

Look DJ, I did read everything you said, if I missed something, perhaps it is the way you write and the lack of clarity than me not reading your post. It is pointless having any kind of discussion with you, you just speak hot air. You say in one breath that these teenage burglars do not go out of their way to burgle leafy areas, well this isn't going out of their way is it if this unit goes ahead, in fact ED will be very much in their way.

You change your points to suit your argument, one minute you are saying that they are responsible for anything from low level vandalism through to burglary, now you say they only low level criminals or vandals. Which is it then? Make up your mind.

I am quite entitled to voice my opinion, like I said it is an opinion and I am not naive enough to realise that this unit has to go somewhere, and ED is as good a place as any, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

You seem to have an issue with the Harris academy when it suits you, and then when it sits your argument you don't, it just goes to show how fickle and weak some of your arguments are. You will use anything just to argue that black is white.

It is so annoying sometimes DJ that you feel the need to twist words and points to suit your own agenda and support your own argument. I have no interest in continuing this discussion with you, because you are so arrogant and ignorant that you will never accept that some peoples views are different from your own. I have said that my views will not necessarily be right or that you will agree with them, but they are my opinion which I am entitled to have. What gives you the right all of the time to think that your are correct in everything you say. Its boring

[canadianlisa]

Tarot that is an childish and ridiculous arguement.

The reason the building is moving is that the current building is in need of a huge refurb and is part of an estate that is undergoing a redevelopment as far as I am aware. It therefore makes sense to me to move it to a council owned building that has the space. I see no problem in moving it to ED, even though I have a young child and 'walk the streets with them'. I also work with young people, most of whom have / had involvement with youth offending services.

The building is on the opposite side of playground and there is no reason why the this service would impact on children using the playground. The current service is located very close to a nursery / playground and I don't believe that there has been an impact.

Just to add the criticism of Jame's post- how do you know where the staff live and that it will be more inconvenient for them to travel to work? Odd reasoning.

It is not realistic that these kids are going to come and report for their appointment and then go and burgle the next door neighbours, why would they do that?

As OP have stated most are involved with YOS due to low level offending and by attending their appointments are satisfying the conditions of their sentence and hopefully engaging in some constructive work. Some of them might even live in ED (gasp) or other affluent areas of Southwark. They certainly could come here anytime they wanted if that is what they choose. Despite James' post it really is not hard to get to ED from pretty much anywhere in Southwark.

I accept that there is a lot of strong feelings around at the moment but it would be useful to have a look into what youth offending and other services actually consist of before launching into reactionary arguements.

[Magpie]

The sporadic outbreaks of disagreement to the board's liberal consensus lasted for a few days, but it looks like the lefties are beginning to regain control

[dulwichbloke]

And without entering the debate, because I can't be bothered, DJKQ I just can't follow your logic when you say there are already teenage burglars in the area, therefore the unit is ok/won't make any difference. How does that follow? Surely, if there are MORE teenage burglars in the area because of a unit (presumably quite a few would have been convicted of burglary/theft) then there would be MORE of them in the area, which surely is a consideration is it not? It doesn't mean the situation is the same, just because some are already here does it?!

[Loz]

Magpie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The sporadic outbreaks of disagreement to the board's liberal consensus lasted for a few days,

> but it looks like the lefties are beginning to regain control

Don't get 'liberal' and 'lefty' mixed up - they are quite different and often opposing concepts. I'm a liberal, but not really a lefty.

[StraferJack]

"The sporadic outbreaks of disagreement to the board's liberal consensus lasted for a few days, but it looks like the lefties are beginning to regain control"

Based on the last few days posts i fail to see how thats a bad thing

[ianr]

Magpie, who are the posters that you think of as 'lefty'?

[DJKillaQueen]

DB I was making the point that the idea that there will be an increased level of burglary in the area is nonsense and not backed up by any evidence. The offenders that go to the existing unit are from every area of Southwark, inlcuding ED and they go to to attend appointments only, and return home or to school or wherever afterwards. Any suggestion that having the unit in ED will create a new problem (or add to an existing problem) in the area, really is nonsense.

James84 I have no time for the kind of post that resorts to phrases like 'hot air'. You are frustrated because your points are foundering against more informed and reasoned ones - that's all.

[DJKillaQueen]

'lefty' must be the most misused word on the forum I think and generally means anyone that doesn't agree with the moral conservative stance of the 'I'm alright Jack' and NIMBY brigade....no? ;)

[Otta]

I really don't see what this has to do with left and right, other than people spoiling for an argument.

James, I can agree with you that nobody exactly wants this, in that it wouldn't be their first choice. However, I don't understand why people are so against it.

Suggesting that a load of hardened criminals will arrive in dulwich and start looting the place, is an absolute nonsense!

[edresi10]

DJKQ is never wrong, remember that everyone

[james84]

I cant be botehred wasting my time replying to an attention seeking, arrogant biggot.

[DJKillaQueen]

This is excactly the kind of cr@p that shows just how juvenile some people are. If you can't be civil, and not resort to insult...don't debate.

[DJKillaQueen]

Meeanwhile, back on Topic.

The reason the building is moving is that the current building is in need of a huge refurb and is part of an estate that is undergoing a redevelopment as far as I am aware.

I'd be interested to know if this is true and if the move is therefore temporary. James Barber has given no clear reason for the move...and has been asked to clarify the reaons behind it...i.e. are they financial or as you suggest lisa, temporary pending a refurb. Would be good to have some clarification on this. Will try and find out.

[Jeremy]

As Otta said, nobody wants it as such. In an ideal world, such facilities would not have to exist at all. But it has to go somewhere, and it just seems self centred to campaign against it.

It also seems strange to suggest that after reporting in, the youths will stick around to harass mums and young kids at the swings over the road.