Protect East Dulwich (Lounged)

[EXED]

I have lived in Dulwich for a number of years. I was saddened that the vibrant ED buzz was replaced with fear last night.

I went out on the LL. There were a couple of local's were helping Jamie from The Palmerston put a board up on the smashed window. Well done to everyone that helped with that and the clear up today.

I certainly don't want to see this happen again.

I am certain that most of the people on the ED Forum would pull together and do what the Turkish Community did in North London to defend their community. The looter's get their strength from their herd behaviour. The mob can be broken.

If you feel strongly and want to stop this happening again PM me and together we will co-ordinate a strategy to defend East Dulwich. Don't be bullied.

[benmorg]

I think vigilantes could make the situation much worse by dragging communities into feuds and victimising people for looking "suspicious". The last thing we want is mob rule. Better to stay out of the way and help the police do their job.

[SteveUK1978]

I kind of agree with the sentiment but also agree it should be done in the right way. Perhaps we should show our support by filling the pubs and restaurants of ED tonight rather than staying hidden in our houses. Round here it seems events are isolated and opportunist - a few kids are not going to attack a full pub and or smash a shop with 100 people watching from the pub. While it was tense on Lordship Lane last evening it was re-assuring to see groups of residents and shop keepers gathering together....if we can keep that spirit up tonight we will best these thugs in te right way.

[James Barber]

If anyone is really keen to help then sign up and become a Special Police officer.

You have to committee to 16hours volunteering a month and get free travel pass as a than you.

[neilson99]

Yes, lets all become Special Police officers and then we can also stand around like the rest of the Met and watch the place get torn up.

[paulsimon]

We need an independent force here to protect it ourselves but if we all joined as an SPO we would be drafted in to help incidents elsewhere whereas we want to monitor the area ourselves without the red tape of being controlled by the police authorities and government who spend their time in meetings with so called community groups.The Turkish people saved areas in N London not the police. I was a member of a group who protected farms in S Africa who could not rely on the authorities against feral looters.

[mlteenie]

I welcome the idea of being out in the community but don't think vigilante action is good. Having a pint and observing is porob just as effective at the moment. I couldn't help wondering if some of the Turkish 'concerned traders' of Green Lanes and environs had other aspects of their business in their minds, not just the rice... If I was a local scumbag who lived round there I wouldn't eff with them either.

[Green Goose]

benmorg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think vigilantes could make the situation much

> worse by dragging communities into feuds and

> victimising people for looking "suspicious". The

> last thing we want is mob rule. Better to stay out

> of the way and help the police do their job.

benmorg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think vigilantes could make the situation much

> worse by dragging communities into feuds and

> victimising people for looking "suspicious". The

> last thing we want is mob rule. Better to stay out

> of the way and help the police do their job.

What a load of liberal tosh.

In these situations the police cannot be everywhere so leaving it just to the police is abdicating one's responsibility as contributing member of society. It is simply whimping out!

Self-reliance and cooperation with fellow members of the local community is the way to beat this. Taking a tough stance together and resisting these thugs is the way to go.

Bring back the birch and public humiliation for these wanton looters and arsonists.

GG

[Twirly]

Just be aware that if you follow the vigilante route, you could find yourself being prosecuted for various offences. That won't exactly help your friends, family or the area.

I used to live in Stoke Newington - I can recall standoffs between various members of the community in the area, including coming home one evening to find a small riot between the Greeks and the Turks taking place at the end of my road.

I agree with the idea of showing resistance through a peaceable presence however, as Steve says.

[benmorg]

paulsimon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We need an independent force here to protect it

> ourselves but if we all joined as an SPO we would

> be drafted in to help incidents elsewhere whereas

> we want to monitor the area ourselves without the

> red tape of being controlled by the police

> authorities and government who spend their time in

> meetings with so called community groups.The

> Turkish people saved areas in N London not the

> police. I was a member of a group who protected

> farms in S Africa who could not rely on the

> authorities against feral looters.

"without the red tape" - i.e. take the law into our own hands. I don't think that's a good idea. Things are nowhere near as bad as South Africa, nobody in London has razor wire around their mansions or private security guards with guns.

And I don't think the Turkish mafia are particularly deserving of admiration, given that they collect protection money from a lot of businesses in NE London and control London's heroin trade.

[benmorg]

Green Goose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> benmorg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think vigilantes could make the situation

> much

> > worse by dragging communities into feuds and

> > victimising people for looking "suspicious".

> The

> > last thing we want is mob rule. Better to stay

> out

> > of the way and help the police do their job.

>

> benmorg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think vigilantes could make the situation much

>

> > worse by dragging communities into feuds and

> > victimising people for looking "suspicious". The

>

> > last thing we want is mob rule. Better to stay

> out

> > of the way and help the police do their job.

>

> What a load of liberal tosh.

>

> In these situations the police cannot be

> everywhere so leaving it just to the police is

> abdicating one's responsibility as contributing

> member of society. It is simply whimping out!

>

> Self-reliance and cooperation with fellow members

> of the local community is the way to beat this.

> Taking a tough stance together and resisting these

> thugs is the way to go.

>

> Bring back the birch and public humiliation for

> these wanton looters and arsonists.

>

>

> GG

Since you also PM'd this to me, I'll paste my reply here for all to see.

Hi GG, I understand the sentiment. I'm sure everyone has fantasized about meting out a bit of zero tolerance. But you have to look through the red mist and think about where such actions would lead to. There are good reasons the police need a lot of training as the consequences of making mistakes through rough justice are very serious. We don't want London to turn into another Belfast.

[mlteenie]

Just go and watch 'Gran Torino' or something....

[colville09]

I think we have two forms of defence. The first is to all get out and stand in LL when trouble is threatened. Three or four hundred people will show thirty little brats that they cannot expand their territory, dominate and disrespect us. The second defence is to use the digital realm and fight back. Lets take a million images of each of the little sods and identity them and make fun of them online. These forms of defence sound weak but could be very powerful. These prats have a romantic notion they are dangerous street fighters, years of mugging people and posing with guns have lead to them thinking they can get away with it. The reality of the sad little f**ks, if you got them by themselves is that they would wet themselves. They have power by being in a feral group, lets find out who they are and dishonour them, make fun of them. Like most bullies they can't take being named or shown in a bad light. It is beyond belief that we should be frightened of them. Taking the piss out of them is the only way. Lets organise and get everyone out. If nothing else, we can have a good party. Remember if you see a few kids trying to look hard, take their photo, they will scatter.

[wilson]

If we didn't pussy foot around the words POLITICAL CORRECTNESS the whole time

it might afford the Country the luxury of actually doing something positive.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH APPRENTICESHIPS...........

DRAFTING INTO THE VARIOUS ARMED SERVICES.......

MAKING PRISONERS WORK TO EARN THEIR KEEP......

thus producing a skilled labour force that can be put to good use

These 3 schemes alone if put into place would help a failing economy.

It will never happen I guess so I suspect the anarchy will continue in various guises.

Just my opinion, no negative bitchy feed back please.

[mockney piers]

"DRAFTING INTO THE VARIOUS ARMED SERVICES......."

You might want to look at the US experience of gang member recruitment in the armed forces, needless to say this is not a 'good thing'

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/gangs.htm

[benmorg]

I think plastic bullets and careful intelligence gathering by the police will ultimately cripple the gangs. In a way, I'm glad things have come to a head. They've been running riot for years and the police have been far too soft on them. Now serious money will be thrown at the problem and probably some of the anti-terrorist teams will turn their attention to it. It's just a matter of time before the ringleaders are tracked down, provided their encrypted message systems can be cracked.

Also, I don't think people should get too anxious about threats to members of the public or residential property. The gangs are clearly targetting the police and shops they can loot. They don't seem to have major grievances against the public - yet.

[genwilliams]

wilson - I'm not sure about drafting, but I agree that it would be good to see apprenticeships coming back into popularity, and I think prisoners should be occupied with work, rather than staring at the walls of their cells for most of the day. I would like to see prisoners' time divided between learning trades they can use outside prison (or formal academic study if they want to), and working in a productive way that benefits the economy outside the prison where they are kept. I also think the closure of so many youth clubs has not helped the situation.

I think a lot of the kids (and young people have indeed had a huge part to play in the recent destruction and violence) have a lot more potential than they are given credit for, but when they engage in this kind of behaviour, they cannot be surprised that they are mistrusted and dismissed by others. But if they feel they have nothing to lose (by engaging in criminal activity), nothing they have worked for and built, it is much harder to make them feel they have anything invested in the communities they live in. If young people are not willing to engage with learning in a school environment, I would like to see a sensible system where they could learn and earn in apprenticeships and build a future for themselves.

[charliebrown]

james Barber - specials sign up for 25 hours and do not get all the travelling perks of the full time police officers.

[benmorg]

Birmingham riots: three men killed 'protecting homes':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8693095/Birmingham-riots-three-men-killed-protecting-homes.html

[thecaptain]

I dont know if anyone read about the Eltham locals out in force defending local shops and businesses, i thought that wwas brilliant, I'm up for this in respect to ED.

[thecaptain]

benmorg, i think your courage muscle has gone. Of course its a risk but I'm just not having it anymore...

[Tarot]

Realistic detention centres are needed for young offenders and prisons, would anyone really change their ways if they are detained in luxury and cosy gang mentality "inside doing bird".

Lets see in our detention places we have ,television,games,weightlifting,pool,tattooing,various drugs food,flush toilets.painting,could read like a Butlins camp.

They should learn lifes too short to be muppets. Reality is not everyone was born to be rich or "somebody",life can be

sweet living very simply and cool.

Most people get emotional and upset over F ,all.

Dont be lead by others.

The man that can rule his own mind is king of the world.

[jimbo1964]

The Eltham blokes were Millwall fans singing 'No One Loots Us'. That made me smile on an otherwise edgy evening.

[benmorg]

thecaptain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> benmorg, i think your courage muscle has gone. Of

> course its a risk but I'm just not having it

> anymore...

If you think you can handle a baseball bat without losing your temper and doing something stupid, then go for it.

Anyone who feels motivated by anger or aggression to join a gang of vigitantes is, in my opinion, totally inappropriate for the job.

[thecaptain]

Ok benmorg, I'll give them a bunch of flowers instead and we'll see how that works whilst they're smashing the place up and thieving...