Unnecessary heating of the atmosphere (aka patio heaters)

[granadaland]

ibilly99 Wrote:

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> I don't have a car , go everywhere by public

> transport and see the pollution by smokers as

> inconsequential compared to the pollution caused

> by cars.

Travelling everywhere by public transport isn't environmentally friendly!

Not sure why you're abusing bankers on this thread but if your not greedy why bothered about wealth decreasing. Good times bad times.

[richardbach]

evryone goes on about th heaters and the global warming but no one talks abuot the warming from the cigaretres strange isnt it

[maxxi]

richardbach Wrote:

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> evryone goes on about th heaters and the global

> warming but no one talks abuot the warming from

> the cigaretres strange isnt it

But that's the Government's fault because every packet carries a Government Health Warming.

Edited to point up the severely weak pun so the dickylittlebot can have another go.

[richardbach]

no but all the people in the rest oif the world smoke all the time and no one mentio s that when they talk aboiut planes and cars and heaters it should be loked at as it is important

[ibilly99]

granadaland Wrote:

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> ibilly99 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I don't have a car , go everywhere by public

> > transport and see the pollution by smokers as

> > inconsequential compared to the pollution

> caused

> > by cars.

>

Because when an elite thinks they can get away with looting the planet for their own greed by operating what is in essence a giant Ponzi scheme and they cash out b4 the sh*t hits the fan and pass the bill onto society then the moral basis for our society is blown apart. The difference between the Tottenham looters who will mostly get collared for their tawdry bags of spoils whilst no major bankers have yet to do the perp walk. But we live in hope - mafia dons with MBAs - the biggest heist in the history of the world. [pre]

[/pre]

> Travelling everywhere by public transport isn't

> environmentally friendly!

> Not sure why you're abusing bankers on this thread

> but if your not greedy why bothered about wealth

> decreasing. Good times bad times.

[Huguenot]

It's mainly because of the huge difference in volme of pollutants generated.

An average car doing 30 miles per day will generate about 400 grams of polluting gases.

Conversely smoking a pack of 20 in a day will generate about 8 grams.

Neither of those calculate pollutants generated by manufacture or distribution, but it does mean that 1 average single person driving to work and back for the day will generate as much pollution as 40-50 dedicated smokers.

There's 30 million cars in the UK for example, and around 10 million smokers.

So if all smokers were 20 a day, and they all stopped it would only achieve the same dent in pollution as taking only 250,000 cars off the road.

Having said that, cars aren't the only problem either!

[ibilly99]

.... and levels within the car are much higher than those outside - you are gassing your children inside your car - which might account for why the levels of child asthma and autism are so high. But we all drive and love our little box of joy and personal freedom so lets go after smokers in pub gardens and parks. Surely the punishment should fit the crime but not when it affects our gilded lifestyles.

Polution inside cars

[Frankito]

I think you need a group hug..

[ibilly99]

After the hug (thanks for the empathic web vibes) the report I linked to says that Carbon Monoxide levels can be ten times those outside - is Nette going to reserve a bit of his hate for these enormous factories of noxious air pollution that greet us all around us in the from of motorised transport or is it just reserved for the occasional self-imposed inconvenience as a waft of relatively minor fag smokes assaults his nostrils. If he does drive maybe he wants to go around and look at the exhaust and have a look at what is coming out of it. Incidentally the exhaust pipe of a car is just about the height of a baby's face in a pram - nice.

http://www.liv.ac.uk/researchintelligence/issue35/images/car-exhaust-fumes-cG.jpg

[Annette Curtain]

Oh dear ibilly99

You've jumped on the muppets wagon too, so to speak. My argument is simple re-smoking.

Why should someone have the right to smoke in a busy public space?

Simple & I'm all ears.

You might digress into other subjects like cars but that isn't my question.

NETTE(?)

[Huguenot]

No Annette, talking about cars is precisely the answer.

More prosaically, the answer is "why should you single out smokers?".

Life is full of compromises, and a subset of humanity thinks it can throw away all the laws of social interaction just to have a go at smokers.

If you want to pursue this, then other people are entitled to throw away the 'reasonable' book and have a go at you.

Then where would be eh?

*shakes head*

[peterstorm1985]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

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> >

> Why should someone have the right to smoke in a

> busy public space?

>

I don't think they should but I wouldn't include a pub garden as a public space. It's a commercial enterprise that you can choose whether to go into or not. If you don't like the smoke then you simply don't go there. I do though think it would be good to make the pavements of Lordship Lane a no smoking area. Perhaps we could apply for one of those Cleaner Greener Safer Programme grants. It would certainly seem to fit the criteria.

[DulwichFox]

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

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> Annette Curtain Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > >

> > Why should someone have the right to smoke in a

> > busy public space?

> >

> I don't think they should but I wouldn't include a

> pub garden as a public space. It's a commercial

> enterprise that you can choose whether to go into

> or not. If you don't like the smoke then you

> simply don't go there. I do though think it would

> be good to make the pavements of Lordship Lane a

> no smoking area. Perhaps we could apply for one of

> those Cleaner Greener Safer Programme grants. It

> would certainly seem to fit the criteria.

A Pub is called a Pub. because it is a Public House

A House open to the Public with a licence to sell alcoholic drinks..

Pubs had gardens for people to sit outside to enjoy the fresh air, and a place where children could

be with their parents as the kids were not allowed inside..

(Now we see pubs filled with babies and children inside all day....)

A Pub garden is as much a Puplic place as a Park, Railway Station, even if technically they are private.

Any place the General Public are allowed to use, (paying or free) is a public place.

Smokers argue they have the right to choose to smoke or not.

Non smokers have to share their smoke so do not have a choice.

Smokers argue quote:- If you don't like the smoke then you simply don't go there.

No If you want to smoke, You go somewhere else...

Fox

[ibilly99]

And a proportion of pubs will close as the remaining smokers gather in each others homes or converted garages with a fridge and an optic and revel in their new found freedom and cheapness of it all. Dulwichfox et al will find more vacant properties in their communities in the palce of what were once thriving cosmopolitan businesses. Is that what you want as that's what will happen. A compromise might be to have a section of the garden reserved for smokers.

And Nette I agree with Hugenot on this you went over to the vituperative 'hate' angle and some of us kicked off as a result - calmer language would have worked better and kept me off forums which is really what I should do.

In a previous incarnation I used to do correspondence for ministers amongst other things and had to write the replies that they would sign off - the huge volume of sometimes ill-informed half-baked arguements would rot the soul but if they used offensive language or there was too much underlining and throwaway comments such as "GET A GRIP ME CAMERON !" then they would get the standard reply .

Dear Mr X

As you will appreciate the Prime Minister receives a large volume of correspondence and sadly is not able to reply to them all personally. Your letter has been passed to me to reply.

Your comments have been noted

Your sincerely

ibilly99

[peterstorm1985]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Smokers argue quote:- If you don't like the smoke

> then you simply don't go there.

>

Smokers argue? Actually it was me that gave you this quotation and I don't smoke. I would have thought you would have guessed that from the rest of my post which was a suggestion for banning smoking in the truly public areas which include the pavements of Lordship Lane.

There is no legal requirement for a pub to have a garden so just think of it as the publican's private space that he lets a few of his mates use while they are purchasing alcohol in the Pub in which members of the public are invited to engage in a commercial contract with him. (Despite the name Pubs are not truly public places as the publican is entitled to refuse entry to anyone he fancies.)

[DulwichFox]

Despite the smoking ban pubs and bars in ED are packed out on Thurs Fri Sat.

The Bishop, The Actress, to name just two.. The fact that Capital Pubs Shares rose from

118p to 232p Jan-Jul 2011 bears testament to this..

Many Pubs in run down areas have closed due to high Drinks prices.. and lack of modernization and poor management.

They were sold of many years ago for as little as a ?1.00 for someone to take them over.

The Bishop when it was the Foresters on some Saturdays they were lucky if they had 20 people in there.

You Could smoke back then.

Now on a Saturday there could be 150-200 in the evening with passing trade all day...

More people now eat in these smoke free areas. Good Pubs have never had it so good..

It is total nonsense to try and blame the smoking ban on badly run pubs closing down...

[DinkyToy]

Considering we are meant to be a civilised group around here, I am still absolutely staggered some people will happily advocate physical violence against another human being for enjoying a entirely legal product just because they don't the smell.

Bloody hell.

[Huguenot]

Gosh, I didn't see that, who said that?

[DinkyToy]

In fact, I suppose DulwichFox and Nette are happy about the rape of the German tourist on the Strand last year when she had to leave the hotel to have a cigarette.

After all, she was a smoker and as such is not really a human being and so deserved it.

[DinkyToy]

Anette Curtain, page 1 -:

"...Personally & if it were legal, i'd gladly Taser anyone who did it near me."

[Huguenot]

Ah right, Nette. I don't think we have anything to fear.

[Huguenot]

He has a bicycle though, and has been known to ride it on the pavement shouting when a bonus is on the cards.

He only says it because he doesn't know our magical powers.

[Annette Curtain]

DinkyToy Wrote:

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> In fact, I suppose DulwichFox and Nette are happy

> about the rape of the German tourist on the Strand

> last year when she had to leave the hotel to have

> a cigarette.

>

> After all, she was a smoker and as such is not

> really a human being and so deserved it.

OKAY...:-$

* walks away slowly *

[ultrauk]

B&Q stopped selling them last year but i still love mine.Love it when the summer is finished & you can still sit outside. Its only a matter if time before they are banned sadly.

[malumbu]

Get a eco friendly patio heater (they are called braziers) you murderer of polar bears. A curse of mosquitos on you. If you are in the pub and need a fag just put your coat on and go outside. Not exactly rocket science is it?