Sorry zzzz I know....2 yr old sleep opinions...

[snowboarder]

My 28 month old has mostly been good about his daytime naps for the last yr and a half. He still can sleep solidly for 2 hrs after lunch - and recently getting him up is like waking the dead - and there are often tears and grumpiness once he is awake. But he then takes ages to get to sleep (last night door shut at 7, I'd say sleep around 8.15). And wakes up super early (maybe 5.30?). But if I try to shorten the nap he's even more furious when I wake him and for the rest of the afternoon!

Later bedtime not an option as I need him imprisoned before starting to get the baby down (which takes an hour or so so can't be done whilst he's up). Last night was v stressful as was feeding the baby whilst listening to him wailing mummmmmy.....

Ideas please lovely people!

[Lochie]

My son (22 months) is very similar. 2 hour nap in arvo which he loves and I have to wake him. Bedtime at 7pm but its a lottery as to whether he'll go down or not.

Is there a problem with your son just chattering away to himself when you put him down? As long as he's not crying? This is what happens alot of the time with us - son doesn't actually go silent til about 8.30pm as we can hear him 'chatting to his teddies'.

We use one tactic to convince him to get in his cot at 7pm when he winges. We pretend that his fave teddy 'Rufus' is calling him and can't wait to see him IN HIS COT. This usually convinces him that he wants to go to bed and he gets quite excited at being put down. Not sure how long that little trick will fool him but it works for now!

Also am reluctant to minimise day nap as 2 hours respite in the afternoon is so glorious! Maybe cut by half an hour?

[snowboarder]

Usually he just chats/sings/shuffles. It was the wailing yesterday which made me think MUST do something! When you are feeding the baby and toddler is crying for you who do you chose?

[Polly D]

We are in exactly the same boat with nap still needed and delayed bedtime sleeping tactics! R's bedtime is later (8pm and going to sleep 9ish) as I don't have the small baby to deal with too! He def still needs the afternoon nap.

It seems to me that length of naptime and bedtime is arbitrary to the morning waking, in our experience.

So errrr I dunno if that helps.

Sounds like you need to have a peaceful time while feeding the little one for his bedtime. Could you plonk mini SB no 1 in front of the telly while you do mini SB no 2's bedtime? And then he goes to bed a bit later and more tired? Or is it not enough of an imprisonment? Or books in bed?

[Gussy]

Hi I get this with my nearly 3 year old. The only way to crack the staying awake for ages at bed is to skip the lunch nap. Then she goes straight out like a light. The afternoon is tricky though as she is very grumpy. I do make her sit and have quiet time for a few hours while youngest sleeps. This seems to 're-start' her a bit and then she will sleep through until a decent hour in the morning. If she wakes around 5.30am then its a classic overtired sign. Only way to combat that is to just keep doing the nap and normal bedtimes and wait for them to sleep through in their own time. Can take several days though and is unpredictable! There is no magic solution. I think between 2-3 years is a very tricky time for naps/bedtime as they are gradually needing less sleep. Its a real transition time and very hard to manage. I know I drive myself a bit nuts trying to keep on top of how much sleep she needs. Plus my youngest always throws a spanner in my works by waking early and wakes her up. You have my sympathies. Maybe try a day here or there without a lunch nap if you can bear it and see what it does to bedtime? I am currently doing 1-2 no lunch naps a week, depending on how she is/how tired or busy we've been. Good luck x

[curlykaren]

We had exactly the same thing (son is 2 1/2), in the end I dropped nap and he went from having 2/3 hour afternoon naps to no naps at all in the space of a week. Best thing I ever did, bed time is a dream and he will fall asleep while I comb his hair at 7/7.30 depending on how many activities we have done that day. I was dreading dropping the nap as I really valued that time to myself in the afternoon but it has worked out really well.

[Smiler]

We dropped the nap at 2 1/2 as the grumpiness in going down for the nap and late nights to bed was too stressful. Worked as curlykaren described, though no longer does (too much energy now she's 3!)

[mettelw]

My daughter is 2.5. She still has her nap in the afternoon for approx 2 hours. It's quite early though - she'll start asking for bed any time between 12 and 13 and really needs to be down by 13 (which is a change from when she was a baby when she'd nap later). I let her sleep as long as she wants to (although not beyond 17:00, should she for once have had a late nap start). This obviously puts some restrictions on what we can do in the PM but I value the time she's asleep so much!! We start our bedtime routine at 18ish and she's normally down at about 19:00. I think all the sleep literature that I read when she was a baby said to let them have good sleeps during and a good sleep during the day would lead to good sleeping patterns during the night. Not sure this is transferable to toddlers, but it seems to work for us. And not sure how it would work with a baby routine as well, this is something I'm going to experience for myself pretty soon....

We've had problems with her waking early (6ish) but now use one of those day/night clocks that 'switches the sun on' at 7am and she is usually very good about staying in bed until then (even if she's awake, chatting/singing to herself). I wasn't sure whether it would work but she seems to have accepted it fine. At 7 she'll then shout 'It's daytime mummy' until we come and get her up, bless her!

[Bumpkin]

Seconding the clock thing for the early mornings. It must be v confusing for little ones if they wake up and it's sunny and they don't know whether they are meant to get up or not. Our son cottoned on v quickly to the bunny asleep / bunny awake concept and must be happier to be greated with smiles at the correct time rather than constant moaning from me pre 6am! Other tip is to ensure it's out of reach as they can work the controls very quickly!

[snowboarder]

I think we bought the wrong clock....ours is a monkey asleep/awake clock but it ticks loudly, which annoyed him. He had it for 2 nights and periodically through the night updated us on monkey's progress...'monkey STILL asleep, mummy..' until finally, and at volume, 'WAKE UP MONKEY...'

mettelw - it sounds like our children have very different attitudes to sleep!!

Better bedtime last 2 nights but 5.15 wake. Sigh - but the early mornings have been a constant for a looong time.

[mettelw]

Snowboarder

Sorry, wasn't as clear as I should have been - I just meant that you might try to let your son sleep as much as he needs to in the afternoon, not waking him up, to see if that improves his night sleeps too.

The thing about the clock wasn't an instant success - it took a couple of weeks for her to understand what was going on and in the beginning she'd repeatedly call me and ask me to 'make it daytime' so I'd say it is worth persevering for a little while to see if anything changes. Also, we tried not to be too ambitious in when we'd set it to switch to 'daytime' - she would normally wake between 6:15 and 6:45 so we set it to 7:05.

Good luck!