Should we stay or go

[fatcats]

No idea why I am asking a bunch of strangers on a forum. Perhaps hoping some of you may have been there, done that and have some advice.

Maybe it?s this never-ending winter we?re having but I suddenly really want to leave London. Working full time, commuting 2+ hours a day, looking after a young toddler but being too tired at weekends to really do much or make the most of our time together. In London also we are paying back debts left right and centre from borrowing the house deposit, doing up a house, debts accrued on mat leave, and although we are managing the repayments ok there is nothing left over for fun weekends away etc that would make life feel less of a slog.

We?ve been thinking a lot about Brighton, well Hove, actually. Main attraction is it?s a city by the sea so not too much of a culture shock. Both myself and my partner work in creative industries so we could probably find freelance work at least down there. We can potentially get a slightly bigger house and a bigger garden (and consolidate debts) and although we would both aim to work full time we hopefully won?t have to add a 2-hour commute on top of that.

It?s like I?ve recently become completely immune to London?s charms but I?m not exactly sure why. I think it?s this winter but also that it takes so long to get anywhere, even for leisure and social time in addition to the week day commute. But then just as I feel like I?ve made the decision to move I think about all the amazing things to do in London (despite the crowds and long travel times) and realise we couldn?t replicate there in any of the places that we?re considering. Oh and we don?t have any friends in Brighton or Hove really which also makes it a big daunting.

I realise no-one can make the decision for us, it would just be good to get some opinions. Hence me posting on the East Dulwich Forum. Maybe there?s even people who?ve tried it and loved it or tried it and came back. It?s probably obvious reading this but I?m completely confused, and I just know I don?t want to continue with our situation as it is the moment.

[Calsug]

Go, but that said I?m bias as we are emigrating at the end of the year but the thought process was very similar to yours.

Definitely for us London seems to have lost its shine and for me personally I grew up in the countryside so feel there are better places to live and have our kids grow up. Despite London giving you access to do pretty much everything you want, realistically how often do you do them? I would much rather now visit as a ?tourist?

We don?t have any friends where we are going either but in terms of plane trip to see friends and family it won?t be a much longer travel time than trekking across London etc... same will be for you if you move to Brighton plus am sure you will make more of an effort to organise things

[Peckhamrye]

We are moving to the Kent Coast imminently, London has just got too noisy, too big, too busy for us. We will miss the area and our beloved Peckham Rye but it feels like the right thing to do.

[Sue]

Had you thought of letting your present home and renting a place in Hove to see how you like it?

Then you haven't burned your boats.

Don't know how that would work job wise though.

I've lived in the country,by the sea and in London, and loved them all at different points of my life.

You will get to know people wherever you go.

If you sell your house here, depending on what happens to relative house prices you might find it hard to move back in the future.

Good luck whatever you decide. If it feels right, just do it!

[KidKruger]

If you rent your house out we careful because when the interest rates rise you need extra money to pay the mortgage.

[JoeLeg]

I would say go.

Our family is now too deeply entrenched on the school system to change, but Part of us wishes we had left. There?s also the little matter of finding work, as my current job is very considerate where my work-life balance is concerned which is why I?m still here after several years.

If, however, employment is not an obstacle then I would say leave. Sue makes some good suggestions too, but ultimately you only know what is best for you.

But London is a hard place to live in some ways.

[IlonaM]

I was brought up in Hove - best of both seaside (well, pebble beaches until low tide!) and easy access to the countryside. Hove is quieter than Brighton, but very pleasant. Not too far away to come to visit London. Lots of young families and good schools. I enjoyed growing up down there.

[Calsug]

Plus depending on your mortgage they will increase the rate if you want to rent it. My bank wanted to add an extra 1% for the privilege so the numbers just didn?t stack up. As a result we?re selling

KidKruger Wrote:

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> If you rent your house out we careful because when

> the interest rates rise you need extra money to

> pay the mortgage.

[tasha1]

My son has just spent a year in Hove. It's pretty expensive to rent (?850 for 1 bed). He and his girlfriend really enjoyed it initially and his girlfriend is in the arts industry and lots of opportunities. My son had a lovely cycle to work along the beach front ( although the weather rusted his bike prematurely during the winter months). They decided they missed greenery though as there is very little in Brighton and Hove themselves. They've just made a move up to Leeds as they realised they'd rather countryside. My sister in law lives in Brighton and has a young child and is extremely happy. Again, it's pricey though.

[TheCat]

I think most things you've said would resonate with many people, when considering whether to move or not.

To my mind, the thing that keeps most people here is the need to work in London. I work in Finance, so if I move, then I either cut down my employment options SIGNIFICANTLY, or I resign myself to the big commute. The shows, restaurants,culture and 'buzz' etc are all nice draws, but as was mentioned above, you can enjoy all of those things as an occasional visitor, so I would think its work (more specifically, a reticence to do a long commute to work) that keeps most people here ('most', not 'all' before someone jumps down my throat!). If you believe you can easily find work in your field elsewhere, then I would say go.

That being said, if you're able to freelance quite easily, surely you can find freelance work in London that doesn't involve 2+ hours commuting?

[malumbu]

London and New York, the greatest cities in the world.

Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave London. No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford.

Brighton, lovely to visit, and Bohemian too. Kent - some beautiful countryside but can be rabid.

[womanofdulwich]

I would like to add that toddlers are hard work and living in the countryside is lovely, but all the people I know that brought toddlers up in the countryside were exhausted too! Why dont you do an air b and b there for a week soon ( not Easter hols) so you can see how it is? maybe you can do a home swap?

[BrandNewGuy]

I wouldn't want to miss London's "shows, restaurants, culture and 'buzz'" for pretty much anything. I can put up with a (fairly easy) commute and all the noise, bother and nonsense.

[Elphinstone's Army]

I know you said Hove - however have you looked at Folkestone? this is the town du jour, for artistic creative types with massive houses to enable studio space, visitors, beachand regular train to London which will diminish in importance as you settle.

Having young children is the quickest surest means of meeting and spending time with contemporaries, sea air, trips to France, Canterbury, Margate and Whitstable, and more beds for your buck !

Good luck anyway, an update would be good

[Jules-and-Boo]

I think you actually need holiday rather than pushing yourself to make such a big decision. It's sounds like you are tired to your core, which is completely understandable if you have a little one. Being this drained affects your decision making and pretty much adds a touch of greyness to everything (are you sure you're not a bit depressed? have you spoken to your doctor?)

Things that jump out at me -

if you can work from home, why not do it now? change your work/ life balance in your favour.

are you paying off more debt than you can afford? why not take a break, benefit from the hard work you are doing?

I love London, I love getting out of London and I love coming back. My kids are at school but I say when I am old I will go and live somwhere hot - growing old in the UK is not on my agenda at all.

Look at it anyway you like - Hove is not far from London so it's not really a big move - it's not like moving to Australia; but you need to sort your Self out first - or you'll just carry this energy wherever you go.

[IlonaM]

tasha1 Wrote:

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>

> as there is very little in Brighton and Hove

> themselves.

Lots of green spaces in Hove & Brighton, both in (Hove Park, the Copse, Hove Rec, the esplanades along the seafront, Brighton Steine, Preston Park etc. etc.) and just outside a bus ride away (Devil's Dyke, the South Downs, villages & countryside a plenty).

[rendelharris]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> Things that jump out at me -

> if you can work from home, why not do it now?

> change your work/ life balance in your favour.

That's the first thing that occurred to me - you say the 2h+ commute is draining you, but you plan to freelance when you move? As J&B says, why not try it now and see what difference it makes? I switched to freelancing many years ago and the difference it makes to one's life is extraordinary - nearly 20% of one's waking hours given back!

Good luck whatever you decide, but as you'll need a freelance career if you move, why not get a head start on it?

[Louisa]

I sympathise with the OP. I?ve been planning to move for some time now, and every time I try something pops up.

My advise would be, don?t do what I?ve done. Never have regrets. Try it and see. As others have said, you don?t necessarily need to sell up and shift out forever. And Hove isn?t a million miles away for a London fix. You?ll probably do more fun London things once you move, than you?ll ever do whilst living here.

Whatever you decide I hope it works out well. Hove is beautiful. Nothing beats waking up in the morning, hearing the gulls, smelling the fresh sea air, and looking out over the sea at a wonderful sunrise/sunset.

Louisa.

[fatcats]

Hello All

I don't have the brain cells left today to write any kind of intelligent response, but I wanted to thank you all so much for taking the time to reply. You have all given me food for thought from so many different perspectives.

Thanks again

[stringvest]

I'm getting out of London asap! No folks to worry about caring for or visiting, so anywhere will do! I am going completely rural - got mains water, so that's ok, got a small town for shopping 5 mins drive. Detached, no-one banging on the walls. A garage, put the car in. Those are my priorities. Its completely different if you have small children or work commitments. But the property is cheaper further out.

There are a lot of great places in London, but I dread getting to any of them ... in the car you can't park, theres congestion charges, then it gets vandalised and left with the rain pouring in. Then, in a nice car your are worried about getting acid attacked and mugged(they do it for a scooter or phone!). I had to use the bus, couldn't sit or hold on the pole for blood everywhere!

I went to Old Kent Rd supermarket shopping and some woman was actually poo-ing in the car park I reversed away and parked elswhere! I was going to Borough Market on the evening of terror attack, and left St Thomas's in time for Westminster one!

I went to the Post Office and mentioned to the person that there was a queue, only to get racially abused as "old white trash mix-up need teaching not to diss??"

Driving through peckham rye a car in front threw remains of KFC out the windows, I had to retrieve a drumstick from under my wipers!

Im off!

[PeckhamRose]

I love London. To its core. All the negatives in the post above / below / however you are reading this, from stringvest are of course possible but if you don't have much money then London's the best place to be if you can at least afford to live here, for the millions of things to do for free. Nothing like it. I was born here but grew up in Thanet and love it down there and go regularly, but could never live in small town ever ever again. Try very hard to stay. Your kids may thank you, but then you can make a decision later. Also, of course, the freelance thing could work better for you here? Best of luck whatever you do. There are an awful lot of people in terrible financial straits. Including of course the coastal towns; my mates' kids can't afford to buy places there either because of the DFLs coming down and buying up the property. (Down From London) Lots of luck. I never take my good luck for granted.

[rendelharris]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> I love London. To its core. All the negatives in

> the post above / below / however you are reading

> this, from stringvest are of course possible but

> if you don't have much money then London's the

> best place to be if you can at least afford to

> live here, for the millions of things to do for

> free. Nothing like it. I was born here but grew

> up in Thanet and love it down there and go

> regularly, but could never live in small town ever

> ever again. Try very hard to stay. Your kids may

> thank you, but then you can make a decision later.

> Also, of course, the freelance thing could work

> better for you here? Best of luck whatever you

> do. There are an awful lot of people in terrible

> financial straits. Including of course the coastal

> towns; my mates' kids can't afford to buy places

> there either because of the DFLs coming down and

> buying up the property. (Down From London) Lots

> of luck. I never take my good luck for granted.

Seconded! A lot depends on your personal experience of course, bad things happen everywhere - the only time I've been mugged at knifepoint was when I was doing a post-grad year in Bath, on my doorstep in the most beautiful sleepy eighteenth-century mews! The Proms and the cricket alone would be enough to keep me in London, not to mention the parks, the river, the gigs, the galleries, the museums, the fact that in twenty minutes of cycling I can be out in the countryside...also I have lots of friends here and the ones who don't live here always want to come and visit, because, well, it's London. I'm sure they'd still visit if we were out in the sticks, but I'm honest enough to think they mightn't be so keen or so frequent!

[JoeLeg]

I think we should remember that the OP has a small child. A lot of these things that make London great to live in become off-limits to an extent when you have kids. It can be really hard to see the benefit in this town while drowning in nappies and fatigue.

I?m East Dulwich born and bred, and will always be a Londoner and love this city in many ways, but I can understand how you can also want to be somewhere else. Kids change your perspective, don?t they?

[Pugwash]

My youngest daughter went to university in Brighton, her and then fianc? were renting but decided to look for a flat to buy. In July when they looked a 1 bed flat was from around ?75,000 by the September prices rose to over ?100,000.

They looked in Hove, even more expensive, and gradually worked their way down the coast to Worthing and finally got a 3 bed house in Goring on Sea for ?125,000 on a former council estate. This was about 8/10 years ago

Brighton is very crowded and with 2 universities and a language school, rented property is very hard to find at a reasonable rent. (daughter paid ?650 pm for 1 bed flat in 2007/8 - the cheapest they could find)

Transport costs are comparable to London and council tax about the same. Refuse collection is poor with limited recycling facilities. Child care costs are high. Food costs slightly more expensive than London unless you go to the big supermarkets outside town. Employment is hard to find and generally wages are just above minimum wage ( but this depends obviously on type of work and if you have professional qualifications etc)

Despite all the negatives, my daughter states that she would never return to live in London, she has the beach under 2 miles a way, within a 15 minute drive they can be on the South Downs. Supermarkets are also within a 15 minute drive - with plenty of parking. She has a row of local shops within a 20 minute walk for basic essentials including a very good butchers. However, her work involves a 15 mile drive each way journey across country as no public transport (nearest station some 3/4 miles away).

[fatcats]

Thanks once again to all.

I haven?t been swayed one way or the other but many of you gave me lots of things to think about that I hadn?t considered previously. Also, some of your posts were so kind and thoughtful I was really touched and I just wanted to thank you again for taking the time to post.

Just to answer a couple of questions:

2-2.5 hour commute ? this is door to door and often involves a nursery pick up/drop off also which adds time as it involves a slightly longer route to work.

Freelancing in London ? this could limit our options as if we did want to move we might need to show 2-3 years of freelance earnings. My current job is quite flexible in terms of working from home once a week or so and it?s a very interesting and not too stressful role so I am a bit loathe to give this up just yet. It?s not a clock watching place and quite laid back, a pleasant contrast from other roles. The commute is more complicated because of the nursery diversion.

Folkestone ? funnily enough we have considered this area. I love other parts of the Kent Coast but have never been there. We would need to visit and get a feel for the place. One concern is I really want the energy of being in a bustling city which is why I?m drawn to Brighton. I also feel that Brighton has plenty of energy all year around whereas other seaside towns may a bit too quiet in the winter. But definitely worth investigating.

Renting to see if we like it ? this is quite a headache because of moving my son?s nursery, we also have pets which many landlords don?t like. However, I do think renting for a couple of weeks could be an option that isn?t too complicated. Too short obviously but a taster at least.

House prices ? have been spending far too much time on Rightmove over the past year or so. House prices are similar but there are a lot of variables, proximity to the sea is a huge one obviously. From area to area, street to street is very different. As the most ridiculous, most ballpark of generalisations it seems you get 1 x extra bedroom in Brighton/Hove for your money vs London.

Thank you to the poster who said I sound tired! This is a big factor tbh. Really looking forward to the Easter break and spring/summer should really be around the corner now which always makes London more fun.

Louisa, thank you for the post about not having regrets. This plays on my mind a lot. I have read that for most people one of their biggest regrets is not spending enough time with their children when they are small. And also having the energy to make the post of the time we do have together.