New Southwark Form to request a CPZ now online

[rupert james]

A small majority vote wanted it. In our street 74% wanted all day to fit in with the surrounding CPZ's, we were told no.

As someone else has mentioned perhaps we have the wrong Cllr's in the Lane ward who do not listen unlike yours who listen and act to what a small majority want.

If it is wrong Southwark will not change anything as they always know best unlike residents who do know. People know this and want it right from the start.

[James Barber]

The problem with this form is it doesn't;t allow people who oppose it to make their views known.

So we run the risk of many peoples hopes being raised who complete the form. A consultation is then likely ot take place when those against will make their views known and it may or may not be successful but a real risk a lot of public money will be wasted by not asking both those for or against a CPZ right at the very start in this form.

It's the council being seen to do something without doing a thorough job.

[Jacqui5254]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Clearly commutter (sic) cars

>

> But maybe of people commuting in to serve and

> service the area you live in, nurses, teachers,

> shop assistants etc. Why assume that all people

> who travel to where you live and want to park are

> out to 'steal' space from you. Maybe they're there

> to serve your needs and those of your neighbours.

> Of course they've vanished now you've nimby'd them

> away. Let's hope you'll never need them. Let's

> hope if shops etc. close around you you didn't

> want to shop in them, or eat in the cafes that

> these people worked in. Let's hope you don't mind

> if your hospitals and schools can't find people to

> work in them.

Well said, Penguin68

[Earl Aelfheah]

Jacqui5254 Wrote:

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> Ah yes, the money-making CPZ...and here it

> comes....'visitors permits'...?49.50 for a book of

> ten. Yay!

>

> Southwark need to cream off as much money as they

> can.

>

> Next will be 'extending the parking restrictions

> from 2 hours-a-day to all-day' as this will bring

> in more money, too.

>

> Ripe for the picking.

>

> And vouchers are not just for 'family and

> friends'...how about..

> your cleaning lady,

> the decorator,

> babysitter,

> tradesmen and women,

> counsellor,

> vicar,

> health visitor,

> estate agent,

> removals,

> people who come to look at your sofa that you are

> selling on the EDF,

> 'someone who drops your kids off and just wants to

> chat for a couple of minutes'.... They'll all need

> a voucher if you don't want a ticket.

>

> There is a huge price to pay for MAYBE parking a

> little nearer to your home and that includes it

> occupying a large amount of your thinking as it

> infiltrates your daily life. Exchanging one stress

> for a much bigger one.

>

>

> And, once all the residential streets of ED have

> been sucked up, the independent shopping of

> Lordship Lane and surrounds will be tied down with

> limited parking spaces.

> There will be one or two hour slots, ticket

> machines, loads of wardens and endless number of

> people trying to get their shopping or have a meal

> within a time limit, not wasting time browsing or

> relaxing, in order to make sure they don't get a

> ticket. Never mind the impact on the local

> shops...

>

> And, once it's in place, there will be NO GOING

> BACK.

Absolutely this

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yes, well said, Penguin68.

[jimlad48]

The hyperbole on display here is astounding. Right now in many parts of the area, it is not possible for people to get parking, be they visitors or residents due to the sheer number of cars (which evidence suggests are often commuters) dumping their vehicles all day long. The visitors that are so vital can't currently be certain they will be able to park as a result.

A CPZ merely means you have to pay a small amount of money if someone wants to visit you during working hours of the CPZ. The upside is that you will be able to get your friend to park, your delivery can go outside and the tradesman will visit. Speaking as someone who repeatedly had cancelled deliveries or repair work because there was nowhere within a half mile radius to park, this is a price well worth paying.

The utter hyperbole that imagines that in London the bulk of poorly paid people commute by car, and thus a CPZ will form a barren wasteland of closures is nothing more than hysteria. Where is a single piece of evidence, of any form that shows that places are shutting because there are CPZ in place and people have to use public transport to commute instead? I suspect there is none because no businesses or schools or hospitals or any other place have had to shut as a result.

I remember before our consultation a local nursery tried to rig the ballot by encouraging non residents to vote, claiming their nursery would have to close as all their staff drove by car to work (despite when they published the locations their staff commuted from clearly showing that almost all of them lived on major rail/bus routes). This nursery is still going strong and the local businesses that complained 5 years ago about the CPZ nearby being implemented on them would force them close are still going strong.

The level of lies, deception and falshehoods propagated by opponents of a CPZ, without a single fact or shred of evidence to support them is just depressing at times.

[Orange owl]

Things are really black and white for you and so simple. My street is not the same as yours

[Earl Aelfheah]

apmuso Wrote:

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> I've seldom been able to park on the same road as

> I live, let alone anywhere near my front door

> during the day for 20 years. The naysayers should

> try lugging a big shop and small children across a

> busy road, hundreds of yards to your door. I don't

> feel I have a given right to a space right outside

> my home, but if we were to simply demotivate

> commuters from driving and parking near the

> station by introducing a 12-2 parking zone, the

> spaces would be freed up.

Except there has never been any shortage of space on Quorn road right opposite the station, which suggests there isn?t actually an issue with train commuters..

[rendelharris]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Except there has never been any shortage of space

> on Quorn road right opposite the station, which

> suggests there isn?t actually an issue with train

> commuters..

You kidding me Rah? That's the way we reach the main road and it's always so jammed, both sides, that if there's another car coming we have to reverse back to the end of the street. Admittedly that's on weekends but is it that different weekdays?

[jimlad48]

Orange owl Wrote:

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> Things are really black and white for you and so

> simple. My street is not the same as yours

Thata absolutely fine, and its entirely possible you dont want or need a CPZ. But for those on streets who do, its brilliant that Southwark are making it easier to campaign for one.

[bels123]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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>

> Except there has never been any shortage of space

> on Quorn road right opposite the station, which

> suggests there isn?t actually an issue with train

> commuters..

Errrr....Quorn Road is hideous most mornings once commuters have parked up - totally jammed with cars regularly parked dangerously close to the corners. It will very shortly be getting a CPZ to address the issue, alongwith the rest of Dog Kennel Hill including St Francis Rd next to the station.

[bels123]

For me this is no longer simply just about residents being unable to park near their homes, or not being able to use their cars during the day as they won't find a space on return.

Close to ED station we are suffering the cost of others having the convenience (or perceived convenience) of being able to park here. If all parking spaces are full we regularly have grid-locked congested streets as cars simply can't get past - aggressive drivers, honking horns, unnecessary air pollution with cars idling, damage to cars are all adding to the toll.

Cars regularly circle the roads trying to find a space, and this situation will only get worse when the new school and medical centre open up with minimal parking spaces. If people think there's a chance they might get a space then there's a likelihood they'll drive and spend time trying to find one. With a CPZ we stop being a destination to park in and hopefully it starts to drive alternative ways of getting around.

[nxjen]

Except it doesn?t make it easier at all - see James Barber?s post above about there not being an option for those opposed to CPZ to have their say. There would then be a costly consultation which could well lead to a CPZ being denied. It isn?t just as simple as reporting dog poo and hey presto the problem is remedied.

jimlad48 Wrote:

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> Orange owl Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Things are really black and white for you and

> so

> > simple. My street is not the same as yours

>

> Thata absolutely fine, and its entirely possible

> you dont want or need a CPZ. But for those on

> streets who do, its brilliant that Southwark are

> making it easier to campaign for one.

[Bobby P]

Unbelievable that this comes up again, after being roundly defeated last time, and bizarre to have someone offering to assist in pushing through this pestilence in roads that aren't even theirs. (Council employee?)

The answer is clearly no.

- CPZ's are simply a tax: and not just the annual fee, but the visitors fees and (worst of all) the large fine levied, and constant concern, when a CPZ bay is suspended for some reason while one is away, or simply cannot go and check one's car parked down the road every day, resulting in towage. (This happened twice in my last CPZ to me, and the fight with the Council to be reimbursed was a stressful tussle, albeit ultimately successful).

- On my road, Melbourne, one can't always park DIRECTLY outside the house, but 90% of the time can park within sight of it, and on the few occasions not, then a couple of hundred yards away. Welcome to urban living: it is ludicrous to expect to be parked directly outside one's house in London. Utterly selfish: never was and never will be that way on shared public road space.

- Under CPZ, where reduction of spaces to park occurs with bay markings, parking in my experience was just as bad (or as good) after as it was before, when free. There may be some roads where a temporary difference would be felt, but certainly not all, and 'temporary' is the operative word.

- Encouraging online CPZ campaigns for individual roads (clearly Southwark's new wheeze: I wonder why...!) is obviously a way to make sure the creep across the whole area occurs, as any approved scheme pushes some cars into the neighbouring free zone. It's all an utterly cynical and blatantly mercenary move.

I think some people truly think these things usher in a new utopia. They don't. At the very least, they add another level of stress and expense to urban living, at worst they do so without in any way alleviating parking.

[first mate]

Bobby P, spot on. Sadly the council have their 'ways' and the push to get this through has been ongoing for years and our own councillor Mr Barber was one of the early supporters.

[Earl Aelfheah]

bels123 Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Except there has never been any shortage of

> space

> > on Quorn road right opposite the station, which

> > suggests there isn?t actually an issue with

> train

> > commuters..

>

> Errrr....Quorn Road is hideous most mornings once

> commuters have parked up - totally jammed with

> cars regularly parked dangerously close to the

> corners. It will very shortly be getting a CPZ to

> address the issue, alongwith the rest of Dog

> Kennel Hill including St Francis Rd next to the

> station.

I don't necessary approve of people driving to the station, but the fact is that there are spaces on quorn road in the morning and this is one of the nearest roads to the Station. That suggests that that commuters are unlikely to be parking on streets further away from it. Of course, once the CPZ comes in, they may well be.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's privatisation pure and simply. A small number of entitled people want to 'reserve' a part of the road for their use, at the expense of others who may be visiting, or who cannot afford the additional parking tax.

[jimlad48]

Its nothing to do with parking in front of your house. Its everything to do with parking within half a mile of your house. On our area, we got to the stage where we had personally spoken to dozens of residents, all individually telling us they regularly spent 30-45 minutes hunting for a parking space anywhere within half a mile radius across multiple streets due to lack of spaces. There were many issues that made this directly into a challenge for parents, elderly people and anyone requiring care visits.

All they wanted was to park somewhere on their 400m long street - thats not an unreasonable ask, but was impossible till we got the CPZ.

[sputnick]

Bobby P, I agree...

I have lived in ED for 10 years and rarely have too much difficulty parking wherever i need to. I think it would be a shame to introduce a CPZ. There are already too many restrictions on everything in life!

I also think it's bizarre for jimlad48 to be pushing for a CPZ when he lives in SE5

[jimlad48]

sputnick Wrote:

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> Bobby P, I agree...

>

> I have lived in ED for 10 years and rarely have

> too much difficulty parking wherever i need to. I

> think it would be a shame to introduce a CPZ.

> There are already too many restrictions on

> everything in life!

>

> I also think it's bizarre for jimlad48 to be

> pushing for a CPZ when he lives in SE5

I'm not pushing. I am already flagging up to residents who want one (and I know there are a lot because I've spoken to them) that there is a way to campaign for one. I'm also offering my advice on how to get one to those that do want to put the effort in to campaign, because we had a lot of hard learned lessons.

[rupert james]

OK

How do we get a full day CPZ for our road? not what the Council are pushing on us.

[Bobby P]

jimlad48 Wrote:

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> > I also think it's bizarre for jimlad48 to be

> > pushing for a CPZ when he lives in SE5

>

> I'm not pushing. I am already flagging up to

> residents who want one (and I know there are a lot

> because I've spoken to them) that there is a way

> to campaign for one. I'm also offering my advice

> on how to get one to those that do want to put the

> effort in to campaign, because we had a lot of

> hard learned lessons.

Clearly the forum is for information so I suppose there's no harm in spreading it, even if many (most?) on here are vehemently opposed (one only has to do a little search on the forum history to see) and it's definitely stirring up a hornet's nest.

I do think it is a little odd to be offering assistance to get CPZs, as on the thread's original post to those outside your immediate area and therefore dealing with issues completely different from the case on your own road. If someone wants to help lobby for a CPZ in my road, I'd at least want them to live here. And ideally I'd like them to pay the taxes/fines I would be liable to if the lobbying were successful: why would anyone be keen to impose extra expense on others who are not necessarily rolling in cash, frankly, when it has no benefit to themselves, outside the political? I have to repeat, I find it a bit odd.

[jimlad48]

East Dulwich residents want a CPZ - I know as I have met them. I am making others aware that they can also request a CPZ and that advice is available if wanted. The upside of the internet is it connects likeminded people to work together.

[singalto]

I live in ED and do not want a CPZ.

[Bobby P]

jimlad48 Wrote:

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> East Dulwich residents want a CPZ - I know as I

> have met them.

Don't know who you have met, but that is a very broad generalisation at best and empirically not true, since every time this has come up as a vote/consultation, ED residents have voted against.

There naturally are always some who do want parking restrictions, but I don't think an agitating minority should be able to inflict extra taxes on a larger number who are perfectly happy with the status quo.