New Southwark Form to request a CPZ now online

[Jacqui5254]

Ah yes, the money-making CPZ...and here it comes....'visitors permits'...?49.50 for a book of ten. Yay!

Southwark need to cream off as much money as they can.

Next will be 'extending the parking restrictions from 2 hours-a-day to all-day' as this will bring in more money, too.

Ripe for the picking.

And vouchers are not just for 'family and friends'...how about..

your cleaning lady,

the decorator,

babysitter,

tradesmen and women,

counsellor,

vicar,

health visitor,

estate agent,

removals,

people who come to look at your sofa that you are selling on the EDF,

'someone who drops your kids off and just wants to chat for a couple of minutes'.... They'll all need a voucher if you don't want a ticket.

There is a huge price to pay for MAYBE parking a little nearer to your home and that includes it occupying a large amount of your thinking as it infiltrates your daily life. Exchanging one stress for a much bigger one.

And, once all the residential streets of ED have been sucked up, the independent shopping of Lordship Lane and surrounds will be tied down with limited parking spaces.

There will be one or two hour slots, ticket machines, loads of wardens and endless number of people trying to get their shopping or have a meal within a time limit, not wasting time browsing or relaxing, in order to make sure they don't get a ticket. Never mind the impact on the local shops...

And, once it's in place, there will be NO GOING BACK.

[spider69]

Loz wrote

jimlad48 wrote

"Really? Where is your evidence base for this assertion? What proof do you have of it? Why if this is true have Southwark repeatedly found that CPZ implementation leads to a 60% fall in parking on streets with a CPZ? "

Does anybody trust figures that Southwark put out as gospel?

[jimlad48]

The problem is, all the people who say 'but X can't visit' forget that right now they probably couldnt get parked anyway. Where we were, it was regularly taking residents up to an hour to find a parking space in any of the roads where they could park within a half mile radius.

All this talk of 'but Mrs Miggins won't be able to come round' forgets that right now there is unlikely to be anywhere for her to park. A CPZ gives you that parking space to come over - so definitely a plus for peoples social lives!

[Jacqui5254]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The problem is, all the people who say 'but X

> can't visit' forget that right now they probably

> couldnt get parked anyway. Where we were, it was

> regularly taking residents up to an hour to find a

> parking space in any of the roads where they could

> park within a half mile radius.

>

> All this talk of 'but Mrs Miggins won't be able to

> come round' forgets that right now there is

> unlikely to be anywhere for her to park. A CPZ

> gives you that parking space to come over - so

> definitely a plus for peoples social lives!

Yes, but before the CPZ there was no threat of a large parking fine for forgetting that 'popping in to see your friend' entails having, and paying for, a voucher to enable you to do so.

And right now, most residents don't have 'an hour to park' problem and therefore don't need a CPZ and all the crap that comes with it.

[apmuso]

I've seldom been able to park on the same road as I live, let alone anywhere near my front door during the day for 20 years. The naysayers should try lugging a big shop and small children across a busy road, hundreds of yards to your door. I don't feel I have a given right to a space right outside my home, but if we were to simply demotivate commuters from driving and parking near the station by introducing a 12-2 parking zone, the spaces would be freed up.

[rupert james]

Will Southwark have enough wardens to police the 2 hour CPZ'S? if not things will not change and you will have to still pay.

All day CPZ'S are a much better idea.

[Loz]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Really? Where is your evidence base for this

> assertion? What proof do you have of it? Why if

> this is true have Southwark repeatedly found that

> CPZ implementation leads to a 60% fall in parking

> on streets with a CPZ?

Simple logic. Where do your "60%" of the cars go? The Outer Hebrides? They have to go somewhere, and as soon as that somewhere becomes as unattractive (i.e expensive) as your CPZ, they'll be back.

The irony of your CPZ championing is that it will speed up this effect for you.

[dresswaves]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Really? Where is your evidence base for this

> > assertion? What proof do you have of it? Why if

> > this is true have Southwark repeatedly found

> that

> > CPZ implementation leads to a 60% fall in

> parking

> > on streets with a CPZ?

>

> Simple logic. Where do your "60%" of the cars go?

> The Outer Hebrides? They have to go somewhere,

> and as soon as that somewhere becomes as

> unattractive (i.e expensive) as your CPZ, they'll

> be back.

>

> The irony of your CPZ championing is that it will

> speed up this effect for you.

I'm not 100% in favour of CPZ's but looking out of my window this morning at about 6:30am I could see about 4 empty spaces, that will have been repeated up & down the road. By 9am all those spaces were filled. Now I'm beginning to see people coming back to cars & driving off. We're close to the station so I guess most of them are commuters. So with a CPZ they would be unable to park here and I don't see how 'they'll be back"?

[1921]

I do not want a CPZ locally, but should it come to be how can we protect against clever commuters "fiddling" the online to systems as their is not code to ensure you have been anywhere near the meter at the time the parking enforcement commences.

I have heard from HH residents that commuters park early and leave their cars all day, then go online from their desks and pay and pay at noon for two hours, annoying but clever.

[BrandNewGuy]

When the Grove Vale CPZ was proposed a few years ago, it became clear that the parking capacity within the zone would drop, due to the need to paint clear parking spaces, corners, bays etc. It was also shown that most of the 'commuters' coming in and parking were working locally.

Both good reasons among others for saying no to CPZs.

[rupert james]

1921 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do not want a CPZ locally, but should it come to

> be how can we protect against clever commuters

> "fiddling" the online to systems as their is not

> code to ensure you have been anywhere near the

> meter at the time the parking enforcement

> commences.

>

> I have heard from HH residents that commuters park

> early and leave their cars all day, then go online

> from their desks and pay and pay at noon for two

> hours, annoying but clever.

I thought these 2 hours were for residents only to make whoever have parked move their cars.

How does this work then.

If true all CPZ'S should be all day.

[1921]

rupertjames, In HH anyone can park as long at they pay, they do not have to be a resident.

[tash b]

I just want to be able to park on my road false stop so I would support anything that will help me to be able to, I have neighbours that own more than 1 car only use the 1 and rest sit outside there house for months on end and also the road next to me they park there?s on our road, I?m sick of popping out come back no where to park.

[rupert james]

1921 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rupertjames, In HH anyone can park as long at they

> pay, they do not have to be a resident.

Which means the whole thing is a money raising exercise re CPZ's

Make CPZ's all day.

Does jimlad48 know this?

No wonder he/they wanted and got all day CPZ. No doubt having a heavyweight Cllr / Cllr's would have helped!!!

Complete joke.

[jimlad48]

Okay, lets try and quash some fake news.

Firstly, Southwark CPZ are run to a very different system to Lambeth or other CPZ. To be able to buy a permit, you need to be a resident in the specific zone and registered online via Southwark Parking. This requires you to prove that you are resident in the streets covered by a specific CPZ. If you are not a resident, you are not eligible to park in a CPZ unless a local resident has purchased a permit on your behalf for the day.

It is not possible for non residents to 'game the system' in the manner described above, as you would need to log in via a local residents details and book parking for your car under the Southwark system. Such activity is almost certainly illegal.

If you do not live in the CPZ area, then unless a resident has paid for you to have a daily parking permit, or you park in a pay and display area then you will be liable to be ticketed. Its really very simple. There is no backdoor, no means to abuse the system and no way of cheating the two hour limit. Unless you physically return to your car, move it to somewhere else and come back two hours later you will be liable to get a ticket.

CPZ generally have a small number of pay and display bays that anyone can use, non residents pay an hourly price while residents with a permit can park for free. If you park outside the pay and display without paying or a permit, you will be liable to be ticketed.

Our area saw streets jammed from 6am to 9pm with cars day and night before the CPZ arrived. These cars turned up in the morning and left after work. Clearly commutter cars, we've not seen them since the CPZ began and they've not been replaced by new cars. We have more parking spaces than ever. There will be a 60% increase in parking spaces - most days we've got most of the roads in the CPZ as being 70-80% empty compared to day long 100% occupancy a few short months ago.

Commuters and those not willing to pay to park in their area are the problem. A CPZ will make them vanish very quickly and make your life safer, quieter and easier.

[BrandNewGuy]

Jimlad48, your figure of a 60% increase in spaces is bollocks, quite frankly. I live 8 mins walk from ED station and I'd be hard pushed to identify more than a sprinkling of commuters - jamming the roads from 6am? Nonsense.

[Penguin68]

Clearly commutter (sic) cars

But maybe of people commuting in to serve and service the area you live in, nurses, teachers, shop assistants etc. Why assume that all people who travel to where you live and want to park are out to 'steal' space from you. Maybe they're there to serve your needs and those of your neighbours. Of course they've vanished now you've nimby'd them away. Let's hope you'll never need them. Let's hope if shops etc. close around you you didn't want to shop in them, or eat in the cafes that these people worked in. Let's hope you don't mind if your hospitals and schools can't find people to work in them.

[jimlad48]

randNewGuy Wrote:

--q-----------------------------------------------------

> Jimlad48, your figure of a 60% increase in spaces

> is bollocks, quite frankly. I live 8 mins walk

> from ED station and I'd be hard pushed to identify

> more than a sprinkling of commuters - jamming the

> roads from 6am? Nonsrnse.

Southwark figure is based on repeated traffic surveys by council of areas pre and post CPZ.

In our area we used to be quiet till local CPZ went live, then it went mad. I knew residents who were being stalked by commutters who knew they left at a certain time and wanted their space. All a bad memory now, but a nightmare then.

I know and have met many residents near East Dulwich ststion who are fed up already with parking and are dreading the next CPZ that will make ED last place before central london with free parking round here. They have begun their campaign for a CPZ and I suspect others will follow soon too...

[jimlad48]

penguin - you assume they all drive. They really dont. There are too may cars for too few spaces making residents lives a nightmare.

Most car commuters could and should use public transport like others do. Your hyperbole is utter rubbish.

[ali2007]

100% against CPZ! I can see zero benefit. For the pleasure of parking outside my old flat in Herne Hill which is in CPZ, you now have to pay ?3 an hour on the meter. That gets expensive very quickly. I've had parking tickets even WITH the the friends and family permits (my error but it cost me ?120 and you can bet there's no sympathy at the council for honest mistakes). I do not want Traffic Wardens on mopeds trying to catch us all out. It's extortion. We'll all be poorer and there will be fewer places to park. Honestly, it would make me want to leave ED... Avoid, avoid, avoid.

[BrandNewGuy]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Most car commuters could and should use public

> transport like others do.

Clearly not something you believe in for yourself. Finding a parking space is only a 'nightmare' if you're driving all the time.

[kford]

Brand New Guy nailed it. Close the thread.

[jimlad48]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Most car commuters could and should use public

> > transport like others do.

>

> Clearly not something you believe in for yourself.

> Finding a parking space is only a 'nightmare' if

> you're driving all the time.

I dont actually own a car. I used to, then when I deployed overseas with work, sold it as I was going to be unable to use it for a long period. When I got back the parking was so bad, I didnt bother getting a new one. As I use public transport or run to work, I am comfortable saying that car commuters are a problem.

[rupert james]

jimlad48

"Our area saw streets jammed from 6am to 9pm with cars day and night before the CPZ arrived. These cars turned up in the morning and left after work. Clearly commutter cars, we've not seen them since the CPZ began and they've not been replaced by new cars. We have more parking spaces than ever. There will be a 60% increase in parking spaces - most days we've got most of the roads in the CPZ as being 70-80% empty compared to day long 100% occupancy a few short months ago."

Why is this? you have an all day CPZ. It makes a difference. People cannot park with out being a resident.

Our street will have to take the overspill of no parking as we do now as we are in or will be in the middle of a all day CPZ area.

Why did your area want an all day CPZ and not a 2 hour one? If people turn up after the 2 hours they then have almost a full day to just leave their cars there.

The answer is fairly obvious.

[jimlad48]

Rupert - in our area we found that the one thing that split opinion the most was the 2hr/all day debate. If I recall correctly, opinion was roughly 50/50 each way and it was only a small majority vote in favour of the all day.

What I would say though is that having gone through areas which have a 2hr CPZ, they are actually extremely quiet too. Anyone who is an all day user won't park there because they know the 2hr requirement to move their car, and also know they can't park anywhere else. Given the overwhelming majority of people commute, they wont' park in the zone because they know they will be ticketed.

We found when the signs went up, even before enforcement began, there was a real drop in traffic. Drivers are instinctively warned off by parking signs. I'd also point out that people parking in the 2hr zone who move the car, will instead realistically flock to wherever they can park all day and not move the car twice a day.

If you don't believe me, then go visit some 2hr CPZ areas, like the one near Denmark Hill during the day a few times to see how busy it really gets.