New Southwark Form to request a CPZ now online

[first mate]

Like you Bobby P, I am not falling for the pro CPZ rationale. Parking has become a little more difficult of late but not impossible and I have never expected or been able to park outside my house. If people are physically infirm there is always the option of disabled bays. The majority double park outside their home when there is a need to offload multiple or heavy items- this takes only moments- and then go and find a space elsewhere. I am happy to park on another street if need be and would be surprised if the majority found such a short walk taxing. Really do think any reason at all is being scraped up to justify CPZ.

[Jenny1]

Yes RH - that would be one way to finance it. Though I'd be in favour of partially funding it via income tax revenue to support a national scheme. The health benefits would mean it paid for itself in reduced costs to the NHS fairly quickly I would imagine.

[jimlad48]

Disabled bays are a very high threshold to get, and don't guarantee you can park. We met many people who have considerable disabilities who were told by the Council they don't qualify for a bay outside their house. Most roads had one or two bays tops, meaning it was easy to not get parked.

I fully agree micro-CPZ creep has caused this issue, Toastrack repeatedly voted no until a local one came in, then the problem got worse, a second one came in and it got worse again and then was unbearable. My own view is either everywhere should be CPZ free, or everywhere should have a CPZ - half way houses don't work brilliantly, but at present CPZ is a good deterrent for commuters who form the bulk of the problem.

As for the taxation line, if anyone has any evidence that CPZ revenue is being used for purposes other than administering the CPZ, then I urge you to contact the police. Such an act is illegal and would necessitate a criminal investigation.

[bels123]

milk76 I agree - it very much depends on what time of the day you are trying to park and your personal circumstances as to whether you experience the parking and congestion issues close to the station. It?s only since being at home during the day with children that I?ve realised how congested our roads are and how difficult it is to park during working day hours. If you are away from home working for most of the day I can understand how it lead to a very different experience - Melbourne Grove (north) is quite a different road in evenings/weekends versus 8-6pm, with a fair few spaces once commuters have left.

[Jenny1]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Disabled bays are a very high threshold to get,

> and don't guarantee you can park. We met many

> people who have considerable disabilities who were

> told by the Council they don't qualify for a bay

> outside their house. Most roads had one or two

> bays tops, meaning it was easy to not get parked.

>

>

> I fully agree micro-CPZ creep has caused this

> issue, Toastrack repeatedly voted no until a local

> one came in, then the problem got worse, a second

> one came in and it got worse again and then was

> unbearable. My own view is either everywhere

> should be CPZ free, or everywhere should have a

> CPZ - half way houses don't work brilliantly, but

> at present CPZ is a good deterrent for commuters

> who form the bulk of the problem.

>

I've lived on Melbourne for 20 years. I don't have a car but I am visited by friends and family who need to park. My disability means I'm not allowed to drive any more. I rely on public transport. I'm very much against CPZs for the area. The reason the proposal was voted down last time was because parking restrictions would have impacted horribly on the local businesses on Lordship Lane and surrounds thus strangling the very thing that makes this such a great area to live.

[Bobby P]

bels123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> it very much depends on what time

> of the day you are trying to park and your

> personal circumstances as to whether you

> experience the parking and congestion issues close

> to the station. It?s only since being at home

> during the day with children that I?ve realised

> how congested our roads are and how difficult it

> is to park during working day hours. If you are

> away from home working for most of the day I can

> understand how it lead to a very different

> experience - Melbourne Grove (north) is quite a

> different road in evenings/weekends versus 8-6pm,

> with a fair few spaces once commuters have left.

That is probably true.

However, Melbourne Grove South (and I mean the stretch literally just south of ED Grove, so just seconds' walk from most Melbourne Grove N. houses) typically has plenty of places during 8-6pm.

Today, as this thread was hot, I made a point of looking mid-afternoon, and there were at least 10 spaces near the junction where Melbourne N. residents could park if it were busy during commuter hours on their stretch. So come and join us in parking nirvana, North Melbourners: you are seriously very welcome, and parking here, you almost on your doorstep.

Better that than impose restrictions, where neither will you be able to park on our stretch nor we on yours, and everyone is paying for a piece of pseudo-private road where parking is still not guaranteed.

[Jacqui5254]

Bobby P Wrote:

> Today, as this thread was hot, I made a point of

> looking mid-afternoon, and there were at least 10

> spaces near the junction where Melbourne N.

> residents could park if it were busy during

> commuter hours on their stretch. So come and

> join us in parking nirvana, North Melbourners: you

> are seriously very welcome, and parking here, you

> almost on your doorstep.

>

> Better that than impose restrictions, where

> neither you be able to park on our stretch nor we

> on yours, and everyone is paying for a piece of

> pseudo-private road where parking is still not

> guaranteed.

Bobby P...if there was a like button, I would press it for this.

[gabys1st]

What is a CPZ?

[tash b]

gabys1st Wrote:

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> What is a CPZ?

It?s controlled parking zones

[monica]

The previous occasion when the CPZ threatened to rear its unwanted head, it was rejected. I recall there was an East Dulwich councillor who encouraged the CPZ, was that James Barber?

There will always be the minority who feel they should be able to park outside their own home, then there are the realistic residents, who know an on street parking space does not come with their house.

East Dulwich has been a destination area for a few years now, and parking will always been an issue, for the residents, traders, visitors and shoppers. I have seen many residents double park and unload, its the world we live in today.

If you want the privilege of parking outside your home, may I suggest moving to a quiet little hamlet in the middle of wiltshire, or buy a house with off street parking.

:)

[worldwiser]

I think people have been at considerable pains to insist they don't expect to park outside their own house. They merely expect to be able to park within perhaps a 10m walk which is often impossible, making life with young children or restricted mobility especially difficult. The argument that somehow this is an intolerable privatisation of the 'public' realm is totally mad. The entirety of Central London along with most districts at least as far out as ED and beyond are onerously restricted and life as we know it hasn't ended.

[tash b]

Well said worldwiser, don?t think some people on here read properly I can?t recall anyone saying about parking outside there home.

[Bobby P]

worldwiser Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think people have been at considerable pains to

> insist they don't expect to park outside their own

> house. They merely expect to be able to park

> within perhaps a 10m walk which is often

> impossible

I've given a few examples of a 'worst option' on Melbourne Grove (2 mins walk at the very most in the worst conditions, even in the busy stretch near the station, since spaces are available just S. of ED Grove).

Are there really roads where you have to park a full 10 min walk away? That's a very long distance (probably almost 3/4 mile if I go by Google Maps, which is always conservative on walking times). I'm genuinely interested to know which roads these are in ED, if people want to share their experiences.

[flocker spotter]

I have had serious relationships that have not lasted as long this particular public beef

[worldwiser]

Crawthew Grove, Frogley Road, Archdale Road, Crystal Palace Road, North Cross Road, Nutfield Road, Spurling Road, Matham Grove.. that's just for starters!

[jimlad48]

Bobby P Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> worldwiser Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think people have been at considerable pains

> to

> > insist they don't expect to park outside their

> own

> > house. They merely expect to be able to park

> > within perhaps a 10m walk which is often

> > impossible

>

> I've given a few examples of a 'worst option' on

> Melbourne Grove (2 mins walk at the very most in

> the worst conditions, even in the busy stretch

> near the station, since spaces are available just

> S. of ED Grove).

>

> Are there really roads where you have to park a

> full 10 min walk away? That's a very long

> distance (probably almost 3/4 mile if I go by

> Google Maps, which is always conservative on

> walking times). I'm genuinely interested to know

> which roads these are in ED, if people want to

> share their experiences.

I have met plenty of people who found themselves trying to park and taking well over 40-45minutes to fund a space within a half mile radius of their house before our CPZ arrived, and ,et other ED residents with very similar issues now. Cpz are not about parking outside your own house, but somewhere in your local area.

An observation I would make is many opponents who dont often seem to have problems parking tend, on further discussion, to leave very early and come home very late. The situstion is a bit different for everyone else during tbe rest of the day.

[Orange owl]

I'm at home every day all day and live in one of the roads very near the station,as I've said before every road is different and I want the shops at the end of my road to survive.Im really pleased that you can park outside your house but I think you banging on how simple it all is is misleading

[Bobby P]

jimlad48 Wrote:

> An observation I would make is many opponents who

> dont often seem to have problems parking tend, on

> further discussion, to leave very early and come

> home very late. The situstion is a bit different

> for everyone else during tbe rest of the day.

Not in my case, as I work all sorts of different hours.

As I stated in a post above, there are/were multiple spaces on Melbourne during the daytime 8-6pm - frankly usually more than in the evenings. On some other roads, your mileage may vary (no pun intended). But I'm not making this up. I've lived here for 15 years and it has always been thus. It's not a perception but a verifiable fact.

Which is why, I suppose, I react strongly against people telling me I am experiencing a problem when I am not, or advocating for me to pay extra for something that already works fine, thank you, in its current (free) form. If those campaigners would volunteer to pay my CPZ bills, inevitable occasional fines and all, then that would be awesome. But instead they advocate that I and my neighbours hand over a lot more of our money to the Council each year for no additional benefit - and it's hard to fathom what motivates them, since parking on our road doesn't affect them in the least.

[Abe_froeman]

I am now going to apply for a CPZ in my road after discovering this week that someone has broken a light on my car and driven off without leaving a note. Our road is often busy but the cars that are always here (i.e. our neighbours) park considerately.

So I conclude it was someone from outside the area that has caused hundreds of pounds of damage to my car without leaving their details and a CPZ will stop that halpening again.

[Charles Notice]

Not if you have 2 hour one as anyone can park before and after these times. Full day would put a stop to unwanted parking.

[sputnick]

I'm at home everyday too and I have two young kids. I rarely have a problem parking near to or outside my house. I rarely have a problem parking in or around Lordship Lane, on the occasion I need to.

I've lived in an area where we had a CPZ and it was a real pain. Parents can't just pop in for a quick visit. Fines for friends overstaying. Fines for friends or relatives staying over at the weekend and not moving their car by 8am on a Monday. Can't drive anywhere because I can only park on my zone.

East Dulwich is great as it is. We have a thriving high street - which lets face it many towns don't have now days - why jeopardise this and make life more difficult for residents by introducing a CPZ when we just don't need it.

[stonebrownie]

My experience with CPZ

Visitor parking -we put everything in correctly including the day and date but missed the year- tried talking with the warden as my eighty old dad(just out of hospital)had made a small error.Still got the fine and only waived when we wrote to the MP.

The permit fell off another time and because Southwark refused to give confirmation on the phone that we had paid my husband jumped on the towing truck until the police came causing a lot of amusement in the street. Had to get the 200 parking pound fine waived which was a load of hassle.

On a day-to-day basis why pay ?120 only park fairly near to your own property?

[first mate]

Be in no doubt, Southark will meddle and tweak with road design and double yellow lines until they get the mass CPZ they intended all along. And it's not just S'wark Labour, James Barber was a major early champion of CPZ in ED and argued long and hard for it here on the forum. The street by street technique is a fave, get one street to go CPZ and soon neighbouring streets will follow.

[jimlad48]

It is worth noting that these days, all CPZ parking permits can be done online very quickly and through a registration search. It is much much harder to make a mistake unless you enter the wrong date.

[Jacqui5254]

You'll be standing on your doorstep in your CPZ-ed street, chatting to someone dropping off your/their kids, and 10 mins later they'll discover a ticket, stealthily applied by a warden-on-a-moped... ?120 fine.

The person visiting you stays 10 mins longer than they intended. Returning to their car that has a 2hr parking voucher, and their 'extra 10 mins at yours' results in a ?120 fine.

Your [3 hrs] cleaning lady decides to stay a bit longer to finish off a job and when you get home from work she has left you a note saying 'I got a ticket, I didn't realise, ?120..., etc.

Your guests come for the weekend. On Monday morning, too late, you realise that they should have a parking voucher from 8am...run out to the car, ?120 fine

Car goes into the garage and you have a loan car for the day...completely overlooking the fact that not only is your permit in your car in the garage, but such permit is useless as it is for that car only, and you should have made arrangements with the council to have a temporary permit..?120 fine.

Your visitor puts a voucher on the dashboard and it blows onto the floor as the door closes. You show them the voucher when challenging the ticket but are told "you could have written it after the fine"...?120 fine.

ALL these things and more happened to me and my neighbours when we lived with the hell that is a CPZ.

And, just to clarify as jimlad48's explanation above is confusing...a parking permit is for the homeowner, a parking voucher is for the visitor. No dates are required for parking permits.

Just check out the simplicity of Ealing's 'applying for visitor parking vouchers'...

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201181/visitor_parking/1500/apply_for_resident_visitor_parking_vouchers