484 Bus Route

[The Minkey]

Is it my imagination or has this route got even less reliable since it was taken over by a new company earlier this year? I waited over 20 minutes for one @ 6pm yesterday evening down in Camberwell at the start of its route. With so many people waiting, by the time we all got on the bus was full to capacity with people standing. It's surely not unreasonable to expect the new company to deliver better results on its timekeeping. I'd rather have had a more reliable service than shiny new buses.

[curlykaren]

no, its not your imagination, the time keeping is awful!

[zeban]

Yep the timekeeping is appalling

[genwilliams]

It makes the P13 look good.

[James Barber]

Its been unrelaible recently due to Denamrk Hill being closed for a period of quite a few days and since the nand until 29 July Denmark Hill has had a 3 way traffic lights at its northern end in Cameberwell.

[The Minkey]

Unfortunately, this goes back far further than the temporary issue with Denmark Hill, James. From the outset of the new company's involvement, the punctuality of the service appeared to deteriorate further. It's makes me wonder whether they are attempting to keep to the same timetable, and if so, whether they have an adequate system in place to account for drivers not turning up to work their shifts.

[PeckhamRose]

For what it is worth I thought you may be interested that I recently wrote to the company that runs the 484 and asked them if they would consider dipping in to Sainsburys as part of its route. They said no, absolutely not, nuh uh, you must be joking. What they actually also said was that they felt their customers would be irritated at the extra time on the route. Oh dear. It would not take THAT long, would it? And anyway, it would add custom for people who - well, who want to shop at sainsburys!

[Medley]

genwilliams Wrote:

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> It makes the P13 look good.

Surely it can't be that bad?

[jctg]

The 484 has definitely got worse since the new bus company took over.

[PeckhamRose]

Anyway, so I guess an idea or those who DO want the 484 to dip in to the Sainsbury's car park would be to write to the new company. The details are on the TfL Webpage as well as on each and every 484bus itself.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Peckhamrose,

an altered route for the 484 with it turning into Sainsbury's was examined as part of the consultation process last year. In the end it was decided not to introduce it as it would add extra time to complete each bus journey. For these assessments, they also look at how many extra fares would be collected, and in this case, I guess not many as people walk across the car park to the main road and so there wouldn't be many additional passenger. The current financial situation means that TFL are more likely to want to cut the length of bus routes rather than increase them even by a a short stretch. FYI Myself, Vikki and Gavin tried to get the 63 extended to Honor Oak Station. This would mean it being extended by 3 bus stops. This was costed at ?600,000 per annum (Humungous for the short distance:-S!). This means that extending the 484 by 1 bus stop would have a expense implication.

It's not good to hear that since a new operator has taken over this service that it appear to be slipping:(. I will raise this with TFL. Keep me posted.

Renata

[The Minkey]

Thanks Renata, really appreciated. Let us know their response, won't you?

PR: Well done for trying to get the route extended. It doesn't seem like such a long walk to the current stop until you find yourself laden down with heavy bags, particularly if you have mobility issues. I don't tend to use Sainsburys myself anymore primarily because it's too big to get around comfortably, plus the very good chance of an overlong wait for the 484.

[PeckhamRose]

Indeed. I am a biker, but sometimes, just sometimes I have to go out on a bus, and I can't carry heavy bags easily. 484 stops outsidde my flat; it would be so useful to have that option for it to go to Sainsburys. What happened to joined up thinking with the government - don't they want me off my veeehickle?

[Saffron]

The new 484 buses are also worse for baby buggies. You can no longer get a wide-base pram down the front aisle, so must always board from the back doors, causing no end of hassle. Husband said he witnessed a heated argument between two ladies with buggies. One had boarded on the back but not yet swiped. The other had swiped her bus card, then gone to load her buggy only to discover that the other lady's buggy had taken her space! I'm not sure what the outcome was.

Also, you used to be able to get 3 buggies easily on old-style 484s. You can only really get 2 buggies on the new one. This means for people with an infant or toddler in a buggy, you have less chance of getting on the bus and must wait even loooooonger. This seems incredibly stupid to me b/c if the single seat to the immediate right of the back doors were only made into a folding seat or removed altogether, the problem would solved. An additional buggy could easily fit this space. Too bad no one considered that. I thought new buses for London were going to be designed in consultation with the NCT. Seems not. I'd like to see the mayor or any of the TFL flunkies try to get around a whole day in London with a buggy... I'll even lend them my buggy and Little Saff for the day!

[buggie]

Well, I've just completed 2 online complaints forms, both regarding the bus design (as Saffron mentions above) and the driver we encountered this morning. After waiting 1/2hr for the bus (yup, I could have walked in that time but was running late - oh the irony!).

We then encountered the grumpiest driver (apparently he'd hit a car earlier in the route) who both didn't warn me the buggie wouldn't fit down the aisle (recently moved so first time trying to use the bus) and then refused to open the back doors to let me on - was only due to another mum also berating him that he relented.

Surely a set policy by the bus company on the correct etiquette for buggy users (?blanket rule that all buggys/wheelchairs get on at the back doors and confirm whether to touch in then get on/get on then touch in) which was known by drivers and passengers alike (signs on buses and at stops) would help ease this problem.... course this could just be too much like common sense for TfL!!

[Ridgley]

As I said before with these little busses, you better off hiring a snail I?m sure a snail can pop round Sainsbury?s to. On a serious note the new buses that are around tend to be a lot better as they do cater for buggies as in my day I did not have the luxury of this I had the Routemaster try and manage that with a baby in tow.

[RosieH]

I don't want to set the cat among the pigeons, and this is a genuine question to parents, not an attack - but is it my imagination or are buggies getting bigger and bigger and bigger?

I quite often see individual pushchairs that take up the entire space on a bus (that presumably is meanr for 2 or 3), and wonder if it's possible that during the time the swanky new bus was in design and production, did pushchairs once again evolve into something even bigger that no longer fits.

[StraferJack]

I've not been on a bus yet where I have seen a buggy so big it takes up all the buggy space on it's own. Not for one child anyway... I have seen a couple of double-decker buggies which are big

I have seen some monsters out on the streets - but as a general rule, the sort of person to get a mmonster-buggy is likely to have the monstor-car to go with it. People who have to wait 2-3 buses just to get a buggy space tend to realise the value of a smaller buggy on public transport

But that's just me saying I haven't seen them - not saying they don't exist

[RosieH]

SJ - it's partly to do with the design of the bus I think - the positioning of the pole next to the wheelchair space meant that the buggy (well, tank) had to go in on a diagonal leaving no room for a second pram alongside.

To be fair, I might have seen the same buggy on more than one occasion, but definitely seen it. God knows how the owner navigates a shop.

[The Minkey]

I've also seen that happen, Rosie, but it was a big one child buggy.

As for grumpy drivers, the Saturday of the bus crash down on Denmark Hill I took a 484 as I needed to go to ED. The first inkling we got of a diversion was when instead of turning right onto Dulwich Road, the bus continued straight on. Once we got to the Nigel Rd stop, where practically the entire bus decanted, I asked the driver why he hadn't told us he was on diversion when he stopped at the last stop on the Rye to allow us all to get off there. Not his job, apparantly.

[Sue]

RosieH Wrote:

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>

> God knows how the owner navigates a shop.

xxxxxxx

Having had to get on and off buses and around very small shops with a double buggy (thank God one of them is now mostly walking :)) ) I have every sympathy with people who have to do it all the time (though not if the buggies are oversized).

Off topic but bee in my bonnet, what I really can't stand are those buggies which have one child in front of the other so the poor child at the back, who always looks bloody miserable, can hardly see out and just stares ahead at the dark, blank back of the seat of the lucky child at the front.

[Ridgley]

I have also seen buggy wars, where both mums are arguing over space on the bus. I recently witnessed two ladies witting for the 484 when the bus arrived one of the ladies pushed pass the other lady to get on the bus and the other lady says she was at the bus stop first.

The bus driver just shrugged his shoulder and was about to shut the door on both of them until I said to the driver that the second lady was right she was here first and it only fair to allow her on the bus. The other lady gave me such a sticking look for interfering and said to me you should support your own kind I politely told her black or white the other lady was here first fair is fair

[Sue]

Ridgley Wrote:

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The other lady gave me such a sticking

> look for interfering and said to me you should

> support your own kind I politely told her black or

> white the other lady was here first fair is fair

xxxxxxxx

I would have said to her, what kind is that then, the kind who push past other people who were in the queue before them?

Actually I probably wouldn't, but you know what I mean. Gobsmacked by her remark.

[Ridgley]

Unfortunately Sue this sort of thing, still happens a quite a lot in my experience. I once worked in customer services I used have constant arguments with some black people just for doing my job they would say ?you should support your own people? or ?you are selling out to the man sis? something a long those lines.

I am being very polite in what I used to be called there is this unspoken thing with some black people when you are doing well for yourself they would call you a sell out uncle tom the house mice this it still goes on.