Child Abuse???? advice please

[zeban]

I agree cuppa tea.

I think you do know when you're ready to have them but obviously it's a personal thing and if you're in two minds about it or just doing it out of a duty or because it's the norm then I that's questionable. When you're ready to sacrifice the life you knew. I'm not saying you can't get a shock still when it happens but you will resent it less and be more prepared to deal with the downs. I got pregnant once and knew it wasn't the right time. Knew I could never deal with the emotional stress and the what it felt to be a 'burden' of having kids. Now I can't wait to be 'burdened' with kids and am quite happy to sacrifice a more superficial life. OF COURSE there will be times when I have kids (if I'm lucky to be able to of course) and am fed up and want to shut them out in evry way but tough quite frankly!

[zeban]

You have to take responsibility for your actions!

[ladywotlunches]

So Red1, any update, or have the littlies next door been perfect angels today and not got on their parents' nerves?

[Ruth_Baldock]

Zeban, if I am perfectly, totally honest I think I would say that I wasn't really emotionally ready to have my son. My husband certainly was, if you CAN be ready of course, and made no secret about wanting babies ASAP. I was ready for pregnancy, that was lovely really, but actual parenting? Nope. It was a short, sharp shock and took me about a year to get into the swing of things. I suppose the same could be for someone who planned down to the day when to have children, though, because you never know what to expect, and nothing anyone can say or do can 100% prepare you.

I think you can know when it is certainly NOT the right time to have children, but the knowing if it is the 'right' time is very tricky. I know that probably makes no sense at all written down, but I know what I mean ;)

OP, me and Mr B are dying to know what happened?!

[bawdy-nan]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Totally true cuppa tea.

>

> Personally I'm a big fan of the "good enough

> parenting" school of thought. It just makes

> sense and moves away from the guilt inducing

> extreme theorizing I read so much of. If you

> google it there's lots of refreshing, reasonable

> advice.

isn't the "good enough" theory that of Bruno Bettelheim who also suggested that mothers "create" autistic children through insufficient love? Funny how it's always all about the mothers. Disproven now, of course, but I mention because the tide of "thought" on child psychology shifts seismically over time. Now, don't get me started on Bowlby ...

>

> I especially like the mother "as a model of a

> good, imperfect person".

[civilservant]

I thought I was ready - I had been previously a good and attentive and present aunt/godmother/cousin. I theorized about how I would love and cherish etc the poppet when she finally arrived, apply logic to solve problems arising, deal sensibly with anticipated challenges...

Little did I even guess what it would actually feel like when it actually finally happened... I don't think I started feeling like a whole rational person until she started school!

edited to say - I hope against hope that your neighbours' kids are having a good weekend!

[Sol]

I was reading the southwark leaflet about protecting children and it says:

The law entitles only parents to use reasonable punishment. Any physical punishment is not reasonable it it involves:

LOCKING THE CHILD UP

Shaking the child

Hitting the child on the head or face

Making the child stands on one leg for long periods

Causing a mark or injury to the child

putting items like ginger or chilli in the mouth, eyes or other parts of the body

hitting the child with an objetc

So, I think what the parents are doing is child abouse, as they are locking the child outside.

[helena handbasket]

Yes true, but as Bettelheim has been dead for 30 or 40 years I think (?), it's a case of taking a closer look at the core of his theories and seeing how they could be interpreted for today. And some (not all) of it works today. Piaget has been dead for ages yet I still see his ideas are alive and well in modern pre-schools and teacher training. In fact most modern theory is standing on the shoulders of some very odd ideas from the early days. I don't actually think they knew about autism yet in Bettelheim's time though. In the 40's and 50's they would have had much less PC terms for children with autistic behaviors.

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> helena handbasket Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Totally true cuppa tea.

> >

> > Personally I'm a big fan of the "good enough

> > parenting" school of thought. It just makes

> > sense and moves away from the guilt inducing

> > extreme theorizing I read so much of. If you

> > google it there's lots of refreshing,

> reasonable

> > advice.

>

>

> isn't the "good enough" theory that of Bruno

> Bettelheim who also suggested that mothers

> "create" autistic children through insufficient

> love? Funny how it's always all about the mothers.

> Disproven now, of course, but I mention because

> the tide of "thought" on child psychology shifts

> seismically over time. Now, don't get me started

> on Bowlby ...

> >

> > I especially like the mother "as a model of a

> > good, imperfect person".

[Alan Medic]

I starting to think the OP is a wind up. Not a funny one admittedly.

[helena handbasket]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I starting to think the OP is a wind up. Not a

> funny one admittedly.

Alan I've been thinking that too. Not enough info from the OP considering the urgency. And then nothing.......

[helena handbasket]

Bawdy- nan this is more along the lines of what I was talking about.

The Almighty parts aren't for me but I don't think they change the idea.

HOME FAMILY MOM WITH A VIEW

The Good Enough Parent

Stop trying to be the perfect parent.

by Emuna Braverman

Being a parent is a source of tremendous joy -- and tremendous stress. There are so many potential causes for this angst (just thinking about them makes me feel tense) that it would be impossible to list them all. Some of them (most of them) are completely outside our control (now why doesn't that eliminate the stress like it's supposed to?).

There is one, however, that we could do something about. It's the pressure we put on ourselves to be perfect parents.

It's an impossible ideal and the pressure can (literally) kill us. While pushing ourselves to grow, we need to simultaneously give ourselves love and acceptance.

No one is perfect. I always take comfort in the phrase coined by British psychiatrist Donald Winnicott, the "good enough parent."

That's what I think we can be -- and we can rely on our kids and the Almighty to do the rest.

The irony is that as we strive so hard to mirror perfection, our growing children are learning to see all our flaws. While our actions and personalities remain unchanged, our children move from an idealized view of us to an extremely critical one where nothing we do is right! And finally (if you can hold on long enough) to a more nuanced view.

I actually think it's helpful to our children if we are honest about our imperfections -- within reason. They are probably struggling with their own. They need role models who are not angels (that should come as a relief) but flesh and blood human beings who make mistakes. And acknowledge them.

If only perfection will suffice, our children will be tormented by feelings of guilt and shame and lack of self-worth (No matter how many school programs there are that tell them they're special!). They just need to be good enough also.

A happy parent is more important than a perfect parent, and more attainable.

It's always a wonder for new parents to discover that children are not as fragile physically as they initially seem. They're not as fragile emotionally either. I'm certainly not advocating we take advantage of that fact, but one (or two or even three) isolated incidents of loss of temper will not create lifelong trauma. Sometimes more growth (on both sides) actually occurs after a particularly unpleasant outburst and confrontation and some important issues are resolved. (Not that I'm advocating this as a parenting technique!)

A happy parent is more important than a perfect parent, and more attainable. A loving parent certainly is. As is a sensitive parent, a parent who listens, a parent who is empathic, and a parent who knows how to have fun with their children.

We certainly can't eliminate all the stress from parenting. But if we try our best, then, with the Almighty's help, I think we will be good enough.

Submit Comment Published: Saturday, October 6, 2007

[bawdy-nan]

yes, hh, that sounds MUCH more like it :)

[missmack1981]

As a teacher, we have been taught, never to ignore concerns regarding a child's welfare. If parents are willing to behave in a way which might cause concern to others, we always then question what might be going on 'behind closed doors'.

I am definitely 'firm' with my own child (and class!!) But not to the detriment of their emotional well being... But who knows?!? Trust your gut instinct.

Get advice from child protection.

It sound like these parents just need advice about behaviour management strategies, which wouldn't go down well coming from a neighbour..

However, if my daughter was being treated in a way which caused concern, then I would expect and hope that the people concerned would not turn a blind eye!

[bobbly]

Ia it not worth considering asking the brother in law/sister to actually introduce themselves to the family. We all know how diffiult parenting can be, maybe what they need is some support. If it was the case that their neighbours were 'stepping over the mark' in some peoples opinions, could this be due to difficulties in coping? if this was the case then

a) perhaps offering some support would give them the space they need to respond to their children differently, or

b) bear witness to any further wrong doings that may be going on in the household that they could alert the social services accordingly.

[bobbly]

same msg sent twice.

[bobbly]

perhaps by contacting the social services in the first instance might result in the family dealing with their children inside the home, and perhaps exacerbating the situation. It may make them suspicious of their neighbours and isolate them further. I am not condoning their behaviour by any means, but I do think a little support may help them to open up rather than shut down. Just a thought.

[zeban]

You're probably right bobbly

[Fuschia]

If you are worried enough about something to post about it on the Internet then you're worried enough to raise your concerns somewhere it will make a difference

There have been cases of child abuse where the neighbours knew there was something very wrong in a family but took mo action

Imagine looking back snd thinking 'if only'

[bobbly]

If I was worried about something enough I would call the social services rather than post something on an internet forum. As I did when I saw a man hovering around alone at a childrens area, for a very long time. My feeling is that the brother in law should keep close observation and voice any concerns that they may have, the social services then know exactly what they are looking for and less likely to miss anything.

[echo]

I think its important to go with your 'gut' reaction. There are lots of different ways at looking at these parents behaviour and obviously we do not know the full picture.

I think talking through your concerns with the Children team is a good idea as you can air your feelings and find out how they work with children and their parents. I also feel that you should also indroduce yourself to the family- they are your new neighbours- perhaps a welcome to your new home for the kids??

Your new neighbours have moved into your street- hopefully the very public display of their 'immature/thoughtless/bullying/stressed' parenting is their worst behaviour to their children not their best..

[civilservant]

we've established that there is a problem, so what is red1 to do? she's gone very quiet - but unlike some posters, I don't think this is a wind-up

it's wonderful to see that people so concerned about this situation, but if I was given so much good advice, I'd struggle to take it all in! Could we summarise by saying "call the NSPCC"?

some people said "call the council", but from my own experience of the amount of time that I've spent hanging on to phones, waiting for emails, being fobbed off etc from Southwark, I'd say this is def. the last best option

[Fuschia]

I don't think that will be the case if you call social

Services and report it as s child protection concern

[Otta]

Exactly, calling child protection is not the same as calling to query your council tax bill.

[civilservant]

ok - let's hope for the best!

(it wasn't council tax bill, btw - I heard from a mum who's moving out of Southwark who may have lost her child's new school place as a result of Southwark inaction - "not our fault, we're short-staffed" insist the council...)

[Fuschia]

I havent had good experiences of the southwark call centre and admissions but I don't think soc Servs fails the same way