Secondary school allocation

[redjam]

Sol Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sydenham School

> distance was shorter this year. I think the school

> is gaining more popularity; It is a very good

> school and the new facilities also help. I think

> last year it was 2200 meters in the first round

> and went up to 2743 by beginning of September.

>

Where did you get this info, Sol? I'd heard that last year the maximum Sydenham home-to-school distance was 2.2km but I'd assumed that was the final distance offered, not just the initial first-round offer. On the Lewisham website they phrased it as 'last place offered' (see https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/education/schools/school-admission/applying-to-start-secondary-school/Documents/SecondarySchoolAdmissionsTable1718.pdf). So I'd be interested to know if it actually ended up extending out another half a kilometre beyond that.

I think we're too far away this year anyway given that the catchment has shrunk this year - and I'm not too bothered as luckily we're extremely happy with our second-place offer. But I'd be interested to calculate the likelihood that we might get offered a last-minute waiting-list place.

[Monkey]

Redjam, I always thought the published figures relate to the initial round of offers. In the link you sent, it says the table refers to the 1st March round so I think they are the initial figures. I could be completely wrong.

[kristymac1]

We have been offered Harris Girls and whilst not first on the list, we were very impressed when we went to visit the school, I too cannot understand why the local community consistently overlooks a school which is 3rd in the Borough for results (after St Saviours and St Thomas the Apostle). What really grates though is the disdain folk have for a school that they know nothing about other than the chatter of the school gates. That 'chatter' is particularly damaging to the kids that go or end up going to the school....

[Sol]

kristymac1: is it Harrys Girls East Dulwich or Peckham you are talking about?

[Sol]

redjam:

I emailed the school directly last year around October I think and the second round went up to 2743. I will look for the email.

redjam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sol Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Sydenham School

> > distance was shorter this year. I think the

> school

> > is gaining more popularity; It is a very good

> > school and the new facilities also help. I

> think

> > last year it was 2200 meters in the first round

> > and went up to 2743 by beginning of September.

>

> >

>

> Where did you get this info, Sol? I'd heard that

> last year the maximum Sydenham home-to-school

> distance was 2.2km but I'd assumed that was the

> final distance offered, not just the initial

> first-round offer. On the Lewisham website they

> phrased it as 'last place offered' (see

> https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/education/s

> chools/school-admission/applying-to-start-secondar

> y-school/Documents/SecondarySchoolAdmissionsTable1

> 718.pdf). So I'd be interested to know if it

> actually ended up extending out another half a

> kilometre beyond that.

>

> I think we're too far away this year anyway given

> that the catchment has shrunk this year - and I'm

> not too bothered as luckily we're extremely happy

> with our second-place offer. But I'd be interested

> to calculate the likelihood that we might get

> offered a last-minute waiting-list place.

[Monkey]

Sol, we're talking about Harris Girls ED on Colyton Road, a small, outstanding school on our doorstep, which is currently undersubscribed.

[redjam]

Sol/Monkey, thank you both - that's very interesting. Food for thought, certainly...

[Sol]

redjam:

Apologies; I found the email and it was in July 2017. They gave me 2016 information and they said they couldn't give 2017 as there was still a lot of movement happening. For that year it was 2793. Apologies for the confusion. I guess you can email the school directly.

[redjam]

Ah, OK, no worries - in many ways it makes things much simpler if we know there's no chance we'll get offered a last-minute place - we can just relax and mentally embrace the school we've been offered (which we're also very happy with).

Also just to respond to Monkey's post of 9:59 - Renata said above that Harris Girls is NOT undersubscribed this year (though Harris Academy Peckham is). I do think the tide of public opinion is turning with Harris Girls - for a long time it's been getting decent results but for some reason it was never embraced by ED. I hope that will now change.

[Monkey]

Oh blimey I misread! Damn, I thought that was us sorted...🙃

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Monkey,

if you live close to the school, you would be likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are allocated by distance and 2/3 on random allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system for 2018.

Renata

[tulip]

Oh dear. We are indeed 151 on scholarship list for Kingsdale. How many scholarships do they award if 15% already have a place? Thought it was top 4% of those who tried out got awarded full scholarship level. Even assuming perhaps 80% applied for at least one scholarship of the 3000 applicants and 4% got sport and 4% music and already 15% of places have gone to them- I can?t fathom a waiting list being that long? Waiting for a call back. Just ranting and driving myself mad with pointless maths!

[Monkey]

Blimey, Renata, this means I can't even rely on my nearest school to allocate me a space if 2/3 of the places are based on a lottery. And I think I'm now out of catchment for Sydenham School and all other schools. Either everything should be based on catchment or on lottery. Why does everything need to be so complicated?!

[kristymac1]

Hi Renata,

I think this system has been in place for the last couple of years at Harris Girls ED. When I spoke with the new head during our school visits she gave me the impression that she wanted to move back to 100% distance based allocation (after siblings, SEN etc) but dwasn't able to change it in time for the 2018 start.

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Monkey,

> if you live close to the school, you would be

> likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places

> left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are

> allocated by distance and 2/3 on random

> allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system

> for 2018.

> Renata

[HannahSE23]

Hi tulip,

If it helps Kingsdale will be able to give you a clearer indication of your waiting list place once the deadline for accepting/rejecting places has passed. I expect you'll jump up a few places. Last year I heard that there were almost 2000 on the waiting list for Kingsdale so 151 doesn't seem too bad!

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Monkey, I know it's very difficult for parents. It's because each school can set it's own admissions policy and they do!

Hi Kristy, the system was new for this year, but was consulted on a couple of years ago.

I guess if they find they have turned away applicants on their doorstep, they may decide to consult again and go back to the old system and as you correctly point out, there has been a change of Head! For a few years, Harris Girls was more popular overall with parents in Peckham and Camberwell than in Nunhead and East Dulwich. I am definitely seeing far more local interest for the school than a couple of years ago, so hopefully they will change it back. I will make an appointment to see the Head and discuss it with her. Another school which has become popular, particularly with parents to the east of the Rye is Deptford Green in New Cross. This is easily accessible, either by train from HOP or the 343 bus to New Cross Gate.

Renata

[uncleglen]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Monkey,

> if you live close to the school, you would be

> likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places

> left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are

> allocated by distance and 2/3 on random

> allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system

> for 2018.

> Renata

A Lottery ...How is that even LEGAL....appalling - no wonder people aren't having children

[wonderwoman]

When are the letters likely to come out? We were informed by email it. It doesn't explain why 1st or 2nd choice was not given. How can you challenge if you don't know the reason? Also I'm in the process of transferring my 1st son to the 1st choice school as he's in year 9 now. If he's successful will my year 6 son get a chance of getting in. Bit confusing but can someone help?

[Angelina]

The lottery system is designed to avoid the situation with some schools, where property is premium as proximity is more likely to guarantee a place. This is also noted as being unfair.

It seems you can't please everyone.

[tomskip]

Wait ... 2/3 of places at Harris Girls are now going to be allocated by lottery?

What a disaster for that area of Nunhead/East Dulwich - which is in a secondary schools black hole as it is.

[Angelina]

yes - agree - a move to lottery places has to be widespread or not at all.

If anything the risk is our children all have further to travel.

2/3 seems the wrong balance.

[tomskip]

I don't think any school should be allowed to run a lottery in a vacuum. But there, schools are no longer accountable to the LA and can do whatever the hell they like with their admissions.

[Angelina]

agree - very bizarre behavior by the school. I wonder what drove that decision?

[uncleglen]

'Lottery'- and who will be overseeing that it is FAIR....what was wrong with the old LEA system 25% band one, 50% band 2, 25% band 3- on a proximity basis- this is a recipe for sink schools imo- unless their lottery is truly random

[Shaggy]

The Harris Girls lottery isn't truly random. It is banded. I've pasted the appropriate part of the Harris Girls policy below. The logistics of running a banded lottery without using computer selection strike me as being mind-boggling, so I would assume that it is a computer programme that blindly allots the places, and therefore random in that respect.

This does NOT appear to a new system introduced this year. According to their archived admissions policies, the policy was approved in March 2015 and first used in the 2016 round, for entry in September 2017. That would make this the second year of operation.

http://www.harrisdulwichgirls.org.uk/120/academy-admissions/

d). One third of the remaining places available in each band ( rounded up the next whole number) will then be allocated to those living nearest to the Academy as calculated by straight line distance from the student?s home to the road junction of Shelbury Road and Colyton Road and living no more than 1 kilometre away from that point. Any applicants not allocated a place on this basis will be added to those awaiting random allocation as set out in e) below. Any places not filled by this distance criteria will also be added to the available places in each band to be filled by random allocation;

e) Random allocation: any remaining students who have sat the admissions test and have not been allocated a place will be selected for a place in each band through a random allocation procedure until each band is full. Should any band not be full at the end of this process, students from the nearest adjacent band will allocated using random allocation to fill the unallocated places, alternating between the band above and below. The random allocation will be verified by a person independent of the Academy who will certify that it has been carried out properly and fairly.