What would you have done?

[Fuschia]

In brief

Got onto crowded bus with two small children and baby in buggy

Most seats full, most special seats at front full of able bodied adults

Bus moves off while still trying to get buggy into the space

Shoo children into a pair of seats nr the front trusting big one will keep 3 yo penned in

Stand by buggy

Can see

Children's heads but not much else of crowd of people at the front

Few stops in, a man with a stick comes past and sits down by buggy ( I had just sat but gave him my seat)

I then call across bus ( much quieter now) to my two... Ate you ok? Next stop

Children, 8 and 3, still sitting am

[Fuschia]

Amongst various adults

Man with stick then says 'are they your children? I think they are quite old enough to have given me a seat!'

What would you have said? I won't tell you what I said/think just yet...

[new mother]

As a general proposition, children should not get seats when unrelated adults stand. Therefore I Get ona bus, withtwo children, I sit, one goes on knee and one stands. I would never take a seat for the standing one.

However, here the chap had been given your seat so he had no complaint at all. If you chose to stand while your child sits that is between you and the child.

But please all, don't indulge in emperor syndrome.

[new mother]

(Not that I am suggesting that here)

The misery of this phone makes me over summarise.

[kittysailing]

Was he feeling uncomfortable because a woman had given up her seat for him and he was suggesting the little blighters should stand up for their mother? Or was he just a grumpster? I would have said. ' I don't think they'll be able to keep on their feet with these crazy drivers '- thus neatly diverting him onto another grumpathon.

[Fuschia]

What's emperor syndrome?

[Fuschia]

new mother Wrote:

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> As a general proposition, children should not get

> seats when unrelated adults stand. Therefore I Get

> ona bus, withtwo children, I sit, one goes on knee

> and one stands. I would never take a seat for the

> standing

>

I couldn't really have sat near the front and left thd baby I'm the buggy by the doors, nor easily kept hold of the toddler if she had stood by me on the crowded bus by the door

My query isn't really so much what I should have done originally, but what I should have said to the man when he complained...

[Saffron]

Hmm I can think of lots of things I would like to say (none of the at all nice), but in all actuality I would probably have just stood there agape, totally affronted at his comment.

The 'special seats' are intended for children as much as for the elderly, disabled, or pregnant etc. Children are vulnerable on crowed buses b/c of their small stature. They can be easily knocked about and caught off balance among adult passengers.

While boarding a crowded train by myself at Waterloo East a few wks ago, I had to ask people to please move down the carriage as I struggled to enter. This was despite there being plenty of room further down the carriage aisle. There was some slight grumbling and pushing and shuffling. When people did finally shift up, the sea of adults parted enough to show a poor little boy, maybe 4 yo, squashed up against his mother who was also standing. You would not have known he was there even if you were standing just 2 persons away from her. He could have been easily injured in the adult crush or knocked with a heavy bag b/c people were not aware he was there. If I had been sitting, I would have given the little boy my seat.

I'm not very good at telling people off publicly, but maybe I'm getting tougher. At the haem clinic last month, been waiting 1.5 hours with Little Saff. The buggy was carefully parked in the place it would least impeded the follow of human traffick, wheelchairs etc. An extremely fat woman with a stick walked in to the clinic. There was actually plenty of room for her to get round my buggy despite her considerale girth. However, she felt I should move the buggy for her. But instead of just asking me politely to move the buggy, she started making disparaging comments not quite under her breath to other patients about my buggy parking. She suggested, still not to my face (!) that I should park the buggy on the other side. I had a stern but reasonable snap at her then. I told her to her face, loudly and somewhat irritably that I could not park the buggy on the other side, b/c it would then be obstructing a fire extinquisher and the doors to the outpatient ward! But being by then completely p1ssed off, I also told her quite nastily that I didn't bring the buggy for fun, that I didn't have a choice, that I had to bring the buggy and my daughter with me. I did not offer to move the buggy, and she didn't say anything else. An able-bodied man in the front row of seats then gave her his seat. Thankfully it was several seats away from me and Little Saff.

[Saffron]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> new mother Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > As a general proposition, children should not

> get

> > seats when unrelated adults stand. Therefore I

> Get

> > ona bus, withtwo children, I sit, one goes on

> knee

> > and one stands. I would never take a seat for

> the

> > standing

> >

>

> I couldn't really have sat near the front and left

> thd baby I'm the buggy by the doors, nor easily

> kept hold of the toddler if she had stood by me on

> the crowded bus by the door

>

> My query isn't really so much what I should have

> done originally, but what I should have said to

> the man when he complained...

Think I would have told him to bog off, maybe phrased more elegantly.

x

[Saffron]

new mother Wrote:

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> As a general proposition, children should not get

> seats when unrelated adults stand.

I would agree with that if the children were older, eg 6 and 11 yo standing together. Three is too young to stand, and 8 is too young to leave with the buggy. Safest is for 3 and 8 yo both to sit. Adult stands with the buggy.

[Otta]

I would have said they're only 8 and 3, and you've got a seat now .

Are you sure he wasn't just joking with you though?

[Fuschia]

No he wasn't joking

I said sorry, and ft bad about it at first

But afterwards I thought we weren't really in the wrong

It was the various adults sitting, he should have complained at

But anyway, I just apologised ... Hence my surprise that the man in my Lego land thread wS rude to me

Surely it's usual just to say sorry even if you don't feel you are in the wrong?

[jollybaby]

I used to think it was really cheeky when young children took up seats on the bus. However after getting the bus with my nieces who were 3 and 5 at the time I have since revised my opinion!

When I lived in Perth (Australia not Scotland) they had signs on the trains that full fare paying adults have priority over seats - though I suppose standing on a smooth train is a bit different to the number 176

[srisky]

I don't understand why he was complaining? Presumably there were other able bodied folk sitting in the immediate vicinty of your children that could have offered their seats to this man? Was he suggesting that an 8 and 3 year old should have offered him their seats instead of all the other able-bodies adults that were sitting down?

I'm not sure what else you could have done other than offer your seat. The 3y old can't be left alone in the front of the bus whilst the 8yr old stood with you. Nor would it be safe for the 3y old to stand with you, whilst the 8y old sat at the front. The buggy also needs to be in your field of view.

Miserable sod. You shouldn't feel the need to apologise, although I understand why you did - it's sort of thing I would do and then be annoyed with myself later for not asserting myself.

Incidentally, I'd offer my seat to young children who are standing from a safety perspective.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I'd have pointed out that they were just little kids, it was a packed moving bus, and that he had a seat now anyway! However, I'm still bitter about being shooed out of a seat yesterday, at 40wks pg, with an 18mo balanced on my knee. Oh, don't rush to give up your seats anyone else, that's fine. Grr.

[Alec John Moore]

Some words and phrases to have in your armoury when faced with such situations:

"It's safer if the children are seated, They could easily get thrown around, traffic being what it is."

"All the seats for children are taken."

"We're getting off soon."

"We have to travel at these busy times to get to school."

"Thank you so much for your suggestion."

"They're fine like that."

Of course, tone of voice is impossible to communicate in this post but if you use a light and friendly tone or a matter of fact, even handed, just being sensible, tone then it should help diffuse the situation. Easier said than done some mornings.

[Saffron]

Ruth_Baldock Wrote:

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> I'd have pointed out that they were just little

> kids, it was a packed moving bus, and that he had

> a seat now anyway! However, I'm still bitter about

> being shooed out of a seat yesterday, at 40wks pg,

> with an 18mo balanced on my knee. Oh, don't rush

> to give up your seats anyone else, that's fine.

> Grr.

Wow, that's unbelievable! How did that come about?!

@AJM--

those are all good suggestions; however, sometimes i fid that trying to justify myself to strangers just ends up putting me on the defensive backfoot for a ridiculous argument. There's no logical way of explaining oneself to someone who is making illogical statements to you.

F- you did well just to say sorry and more/less ignore the situation.

[bluesuperted]

Have been thinking about this thread and feel that he was being mean/miserable and taking out his annoyance re: able bodied people not giving up seats on the wrong person! I often get thrown around by the bus drivers erratic turns and it scares me when I have baby in the sling and I'm only usually walking to my seat! Totally inappropriate to expect a 3 yr old (or really an 8 year old!) to stand if possible for them to sit as they would be legally obliged to be in a carseat in a car!

Ruth: that is insane!!! I used to get really feisty when I was heavily pg on the bus/train... I remember one huffing commuter sighing loudly when I nipped in and got a seat as was exhausted - I stared at him and said 'Sorry, are you

35 weeks pregnant too?'.

[Otta]

Fuschia Wrote:

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> No he wasn't joking

Fair enough, just came across as something I would've found funny, if said in the right manner.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Saffron&BST: just another one of my adventures on the 12! we'd not been able to get on the previous 3 as full with prams, when the fourth came along I thought "feck this" and got on the front, asked the driver to hold in for a bit whilst I collapsed the maclaren and threw it on the luggage bit the front, told him I was getting off at St giles church and he promised to stop for longer so I could put buggy back up and deposit infant in it. S was on my knee being very good, pointing at things out of the window and someone got on wanting a seat (had crutches and all other seats occupied by right elderly folk or Rude Buggers pretending to look at phones) and asked me first. Apparently you can't tell I'm 40wks pg!!! I didn't move and bus driver had a word over tannoy.

Still fuming though.

[prm]

I would have said (with a friendly smile & sweet non-confrontational tone) "Weeeell no worries I gave you my seat instead...it's best if they stay there, the little one is just 3 and I don't want him falling over"

It's good to be thoughtful but you needed those seats too, it can't be easy to get on a bus with 3 children, no need to apologise in my opinion.

[Saffron]

Sorry, Ruth, I'm still unclear... did you actually have to give up your seat?!? And you stayed on the bus standing?!? You need to file a formal complaint with TFL if that is the case. If all the 'special seats' are full, and someone who need a special seat wants to board, they would have to wait for the next bus.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Nah I didn't give up my seat- someone else did. If I was on my own I probably would have done (wimp) but I draw the line at standing up with Seb on my hip. No way Jose.

[Saffron]

Good for you, Ruth! x

[sophiechristophy]

I am confused - why should an adult get priority for a seat over a child? Does a child not deserve a seat as equally (if not more) than an adult?