Tragedy! Curry Cabin shut down

[Penguin68]

Either we will, as customers, support this, or we won't. LL is still an area which is mainly supported by relatively close residents - it doesn't have a large commuting population - and it isn't, yet, a destination venue. So, if we, who live here, want a Costa we will patronise it. If we don't, we won't and it will lose money. We already have a close Starbucks, in Dog Kennel Hill, and a Caf? Nero - as well as numerous non-chain caf? venues. If there is a market for yet another coffee shop, then fine. I doubt whether what (another) formula chain has to offer will provide sufficient differentiation, on price, quality or 'innovation' (product range) grounds to be compelling, but if it does, well the market will have spoken.

[JoeLeg]

Again, an important point about big chains is that they will support loss-making sites on an individual basis in order to have a presence in an area, sometimes purely to deny the site to a competitor.

Their financial calculations move to a very different beat than those of independents and even small chains, so while we might (quite reasonably) question whether an area can support it, the company concerned may have a very different definition of success.

[DulwichFox]

Caf? Nero Coffee is Caf? Nero Coffee.

Costa Coffee is Costa Coffee.

Starbucks Coffee is Starbucks Coffee.

They are what they are.

If you want something 'Different' you have to go elsewhere.

Only the independent cafes can offer something 'Different' You decide which is the best.

DulwichFox

[doogsey]

In defense of Costa, they are the only coffee chain I?d step foot in. Cafe Nero and Starbucks make atrocious coffee, at least Costa train their staff and can be relied upon to make consistently better coffee than most independent shops. That being said their food is very sub par.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think Costa started in Lambeth too. So a South London success story. That said, I still don't think we need them on Lordship Lane. Would be good to have a clothes shop.

[kford]

Maybe this thread's title should change to reflect the new subject

[Sue]

Always possible to start another thread!

[JohnL]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Either we will, as customers, support this, or we

> won't. LL is still an area which is mainly

> supported by relatively close residents - it

> doesn't have a large commuting population - and it

> isn't, yet, a destination venue. So, if we, who

> live here, want a Costa we will patronise it. If

> we don't, we won't and it will lose money. We

> already have a close Starbucks, in Dog Kennel

> Hill, and a Caf? Nero - as well as numerous

> non-chain caf? venues. If there is a market for

> yet another coffee shop, then fine. I doubt

> whether what (another) formula chain has to offer

> will provide sufficient differentiation, on price,

> quality or 'innovation' (product range) grounds to

> be compelling, but if it does, well the market

> will have spoken.

All coffee places are full in my expeience - but whether that translates to profit I don't know.

I actually like Nero's atrocious coffee - but maybe I should ask for an extra shot in Costa and Starbucks.

[El Presidente]

It is true Costa are the best of a bad bunch when it comes to chain coffee. But their offering is so inferior to the many brilliant coffee shops in East Dulwich. The Brick House, Kanella and Tart to name but 3 do really, really great coffee.

But if Nero's is anything to go by, people prefer familiarity to quality. It's always busy, despite serving the least inspiring, most insipid coffee in the whole of LL. So as much as i won't set foot in the new Costa, if they do open in the londis site, i suspect they will do well.

[Annie5]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I think Costa started in Lambeth too. So a South

> London success story. That said, I still don't

> think we need them on Lordship Lane. Would be good

> to have a clothes shop.

Well said. There are plenty of coffee places but nowhere to do any clothes shopping.......

[1921]

Hi James

The newsagent was my source for Costa, maybe he is wrong. I do actually like Costa but would prefer something that isn't a coffee shop.

[Jennys]

Annie5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think Costa started in Lambeth too. So a

> South

> > London success story. That said, I still don't

> > think we need them on Lordship Lane. Would be

> good

> > to have a clothes shop.

>

>

> Well said. There are plenty of coffee places but

> nowhere to do any clothes shopping.......

What about fashion conscious in Grove Vale or Sugar on the roundabout, White stuff, Iris, Ed in North Cross Road... and more. Plus charity shops of course.

[DulwichFox]

.. and Oliver Bonas.

[Louisa]

Or, Sainsbury?s, Primark, Bon Marche, Peacocks to name but a few - all within walking distance!

Sorry we don?t have a selfridges just yet, I?ll see what I can arrange.

Louisa.

[fishbiscuits]

Yeah we already have a handful of clothes shops. Not sure there's a market for any more. Especially with the size of the shops in ED, and the expensive rents.. it's only really going to be boutique-type places, and those sort of shops seem to have struggled (Question-air, Mrs Robinson, etc)

Most normal people buy clothes at affordable high street chain type places, and none of those are EVER going to come to ED.

[Sue]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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>

> Most normal people buy clothes at affordable high

> street chain type places, and none of those are

> EVER going to come to ED.

Well, let's hope.

People used to say the same about high street coffee shop type places - like Cafe Nero :(

[Earl Aelfheah]

I was thinking of men's clothes shops. There is ED, but it's expensive. White Stuff is just awful for men's clothes. would be good to have somewhere else. Certainly better than a large, chain coffee shop.

[DulwichFox]

Shops on Lordship Lane are not big enough to stock a range of clothes in all sizes.

DulwichFox

[Louisa]

East Dulwich will never attract large chain shops, simple as that. Also, I see no evidence of Costa trying to relocate to the Londis site, and I monitor the planning portal daily.

Any attempt to remove Londis will be met with strong opposition. Lots of elderly people rely on this shop.

Louisa.

[JoeLeg]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> East Dulwich will never attract large chain shops,

> simple as that. Also, I see no evidence of Costa

> trying to relocate to the Londis site, and I

> monitor the planning portal daily.

Daily? Seriously? I genuinely wish I had that kind of spare time...

>

> Any attempt to remove Londis will be met with

> strong opposition. Lots of elderly people rely on

> this shop.

>

> Louisa.

As I understand it (and of course I could be wrong), it's Londis that are thinking of vacating because the site is no longer profitable enough for them? The opening of M+S has had an effect on their business, and though many people do use it, the overheads of running a 24 hour store must be considerable.

[Tanday]

Costa are opening further up the road in Forest Hill and are rumoured to be interested in the DIY shop opposite the Plough.

[Louisa]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > East Dulwich will never attract large chain

> shops,

> > simple as that. Also, I see no evidence of

> Costa

> > trying to relocate to the Londis site, and I

> > monitor the planning portal daily.

>

> Daily? Seriously? I genuinely wish I had that kind

> of spare time...

>

> >

> > Any attempt to remove Londis will be met with

> > strong opposition. Lots of elderly people rely

> on

> > this shop.

> >

> > Louisa.

>

> As I understand it (and of course I could be

> wrong), it's Londis that are thinking of vacating

> because the site is no longer profitable enough

> for them? The opening of M+S has had an effect on

> their business, and though many people do use it,

> the overheads of running a 24 hour store must be

> considerable.

From what I understand JoeLeg, the Londis store has not been profitable for some years, long before M&S arrived. Bare in mind the Iceland store had similar opening hours to M&S.

If Londis no longer wish to remain at this location, a viable alternative which keeps alive the useable community aspect must be found. Yet another restaurant is just not acceptable, nor is a coffee shop.

This site is handy for people who use gas and electric keys, and also I know a lot of elderly people who come here to buy lottery tickets and newspapers. I expect local councillors to fight tooth and nail to keep Londis or something similar at this site.

Louisa.

[JoeLeg]

> From what I understand JoeLeg, the Londis store

> has not been profitable for some years, long

> before M&S arrived. Bare in mind the Iceland store

> had similar opening hours to M&S.

Yes, but M+S is pulling in more people than Iceland was, and I suspect they are picking up stuff while they are there that they might have used Londis for previously.

>

> If Londis no longer wish to remain at this

> location, a viable alternative which keeps alive

> the useable community aspect must be found. Yet

> another restaurant is just not acceptable, nor is

> a coffee shop.

While I heartily agree with you, I fear that the council will be unlikely to take that into consideration unless some kind of fervent representations are made. And remember this is Southwark we?re talking about...

>

> This site is handy for people who use gas and

> electric keys, and also I know a lot of elderly

> people who come here to buy lottery tickets and

> newspapers. I expect local councillors to fight

> tooth and nail to keep Londis or something similar

> at this site.

But if the site has dropped further into the red, what can local politicians do? The owners will eventually decide on its future, and unless a decrease in rent can somehow be agreed I don?t see what can be done, unfortunately.

[wayne10]

we love memsaab so not too bothered

[James Barber]

For transparency we have a local planning rule about 50% of the Lordship Lane shops units remaining as shop units. Londis is a shop unit. A coffee shop would not be a shop unit. On this basis a change of use should not receive planning permission.

The recent planning application for said change f use Cllr Rosie Shimell and I have requested a councillor call-in if officers are minded to grant planning permission. This means even if officers buckle and contravene our own planning rules it would be decided by a committee fo councillors - doesnt guarantee anything but it is the best protection of Rosie and I trying to protect our shopping high street.