Rude man

[Ruth_Baldock]

Moos, couldn't agree more. Also absloutely disgusted by dogwalker in goose green- appalling. Seb rcrntly heard a

mum telling off her son and was effing and blinding and used the word sh*t a lot. Seb laughed his cheeky head off and proceeded to shout said swear word a the top of his lungs for around ten minutes. Fab!!!

[Dorothy]

I think you were a little bit rude to glare at the child. You said you were splashed a bit (on purpose?) which prompted the glare. The soaking came after the glare. Yes, the parent was very rude to you. But you were a little bit rude to his daughter. Perhaps your thread title should be very rude man and slightly rude me.

[Fuschia]

Dorothy, you are a far better woman than me if you can look up to spot the source of a spray of cold water with an expression of delighted amusement, is all I can say!

[zeban]

I don't think it was rude to glare at all!

[Otta]

Perhaps you could've looked up startled, then upon realising it was a child, said something about being a bit careful. Then the follow up spray may never have happened.

Just a thought, because I thought you wanted people's thoughts on this type of situation.

[new mother]

Fuschia is not an unreasonable person. If she "glared",it was because something aboutthe first incident made her think badly of the child Ie it was worse than careless.

The subsequent deliberate drenching of the baby was an assault bythe child - but beneath the age of criminal responsibility - and if the father had seen it and failed to stop it, he could be done for aiding and abetting the assault.

Dorothy, this is quite serious stuff. Your comment is hilarious.

All, the bigger issue is that some people here think that children have no need to take responsibility or behave. THat worries me. In a previous era, the man would have walloped the child there and then as would have any passing neighbour.

[Fuschia]

I didn't have any particular plan in mind when I looked up, tbh

I think you all credit me with far too speedy a conscious reaction

Give yourself a sudden quick dousing with cold water while you're standing in the fun jiggling a grouchy bSby after a 5.15am and see if you can manage something sunnily amused!

I looked up in shock, saw some girl aiming a water gun at me, I'm sure my exact expression probably flitted through initial surprise to upset to pissed off and just as I was looking cross she sort of smirked and took aim again at my 7 month old's face!

I am pretty amazed so many of you think you would have responded any differently ... Particularly as most of my friends describe me as pretty patient and tolerant

ED must surely be a centre for the virtuous and the good, if I have turned out to be a fun loving killjoy by comparison

Perhaps I will sneak up behind s few people in dulwich park with a water pistol, just for Market research purposes :-)

[new mother]

Damn iPhone - I reached the bottom of some screen it had set up.

I was about to say that walloping children is clearly not acceptable to us today but we have to find way of disciplining them and making them obey adults. The idea that Fuchsia was a "little bit rude" to the child concerns me, Dorothy, as it is exactly this type of attitude that has led us to where we are - a society where children have insufficient respect for adults. (in my view!)

[new mother]

Fuchsia, I agree with everything you are posting save this.

Responding by other than swiftly and strongly admonishing this child would not have been "virtuous and good". It would have been wrong by you child, shortsighted by the other child and the action of a weak adult.

It isn't "extra nice" to allow your child to be assaulted by a spOilt brat/aggressive father combo.

[new mother]

Fuschia, FYI I am typing your name correctly each time and the phone changes it. Sorry. I am pedantic abOut things like this.

[Fuschia]

Excuse my typos too

I will pose another moral dilemma, for contrast, in another thread

[kittysailing]

I was walking down Bellenden Road the other day when 2 young teenagers came towards me pointing two very real looking toy guns ( machine gun and a pistol to be precise) one pointed it straight at my toddler in a sideways gangsta style pose - boy I more than glared I can tell you. I grabbed the guns off them and threw them on the floor (the guns not the kids) and shouted very loudly that they must never do that again. They looked shocked and sheepish and slinked off. If a child does something unacceptable and the parents aren't there to reprimand them I think one is perfectly within their rights to glare or shout. I was shouted at by adults as a kid when I was out of line. What's the world come to when glaring at a child is seen as somehow unacceptable?

[Fuschia]

I must admit at paradise wildlife park when I saw a boy punch a girl in the face in soft play I first reported him to staff ( he was asked to leave) and then took the crying girl to her mum and said what I had seen

I didn't speak to the boy because he had already run off into the play frame

I wonder if I am more prone to telling children off because I work in a school and you can't see bad behaviour without picking it up

[sillywoman]

I completely agree with new mother. F you were absolutely in the right. Dorothy & Otta are completely away with fairies on this. As new mother says, dorothy's 'oh dear, that wasn't very nice to a tiny defenceless child now was it' attitude is just rubbish & has led us as a nation to this parlous state. Have some backbone woman/man. Stand up for what is right & respectful.

Otta- you're overthinking the whole thing. This isn't a 'how would you react if you had time to consider an 'appropriate' and acceptable to all response' scenario. This is a real life, 'how would you react if someone else's old-enough-to-know-what-they're-doing child purposely did something to hurt your baby.

A glare was completely appropriate in the initial instance; a polite word, very restrained under the following onslaught. The girls father was an a*%e and is clearly equipping her well for a life of disrespect for others.

Grrrr, fence sitters.

[srisky]

sillywoman - you have a very aggressive way of posting when people don't agree with you. Opinions were sought and opinions were offered. If you don't agree with them then that's obviously fine but the manner in which you reply is not in keeping with the tone of the other posts (IMO).

[The Nappy Lady]

F, I think your reaction was gut instinct, and most of us are programmed to ferociously protect our babies after all. I am often amazed by the way parents seem to ignore their own child's behaviour in public spaces.

A month or two ago I was in the Chinese garden at Peckham Rye, with dog on lead as signs request, plus 2 & 6 year old. Saw a man let his dog jump into the area, run around whilst he did little to call it back...I admit to glaring a bit! Then I had to retrieve my 2 year old & came back to the path to find my 6 year old upset as she had been 'told off' by the man for holding on to the branch of a tree as she might break it! I so wanted to give chase & give him a mouthful about dog control, but what I actually did was reassure her, but point out that she knows better than to hang off trees like that.

I have no issue with him telling her off, but find his double standards regarding respect of the park interesting.

[Otta]

I never said this yesterday, but SW's above post has set me off.

Whilst the Family Room is very useful, and often interesting, there are a couple of posters who like to share everything on here, safe in the knowledge that they'll get agreement and sympathy from their pals. That is absolutely fine, but don't word it like you're interested in other opinions, if anything opposing your view is going to be dismissed out of hand.

I have no beef with Fuschia, and the bloke in this situation was obviously over aggressive. However, the parental protective instinct is so strong, and can make adults act quite out of character.

Also, it's fine to believe that our kids should be raised by society, I'd subscribe to that, but equally, I need to respect that the next man it woman on the street may not share that view, and appreciate me having words with their child.

New mother calling ANY child of that age "a nasty piece of work" is just plain weird!

Finally, SW I don't like the tone of your post everything I've said on here has been polite.

Edit for typos

[cuppa tea]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Damn iPhone - I reached the bottom of some screen

> it had set up.

>

> I was about to say that walloping children is

> clearly not acceptable to us today but we have to

> find way of disciplining them and making them obey

> adults. The idea that Fuchsia was a "little bit

> rude" to the child concerns me, Dorothy, as it is

> exactly this type of attitude that has led us to

> where we are - a society where children have

> insufficient respect for adults. (in my view!)

WOW! Children have insufficient respect for adults because we treat them with little respect ourselves and expect them to 'obey'. What century is this anyway?!

To me going to a theme park with water play and not expecting to get wet is quite surprising. The temptation of a child to soak people with a water canon is just too great. They don't know better at age 7. Even I would be tempted! While not nice for a baby...and for what it's worth I would have had words too, demonising the child as some people are doing here, is not setting a great example either.

Also do you really want your child to be 'raised by society'? As from what I can see 'society' is not that great! Particularly when grown men will swear at mothers in front of their kids.

[Otta]

Exactly, how would people feel if this sort of scary, aggressive bloke felt the need to have words with their children in public?

[Otta]

What I mean by that is that speaking to other people's children is a difficult one, because it has to work both ways, which means in theory, your kids could be good off by someone with a very different parenting style to you.

I think I am happy for someone to say "don't do that darling" to my daughter, but if they feel she needs a telling off, I'd want them to speak to me, so I could so it my way.

And I know it's not always possible to speak to a parent, before anyone point out that the dad in this incident wasn't obvious when looked for.

[cuppa tea]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The subsequent deliberate drenching of the baby

> was an assault bythe child - but beneath the age

> of criminal responsibility - and if the father

> had seen it and failed to stop it, he could be

> done for aiding and abetting the assault.

>

> All, the bigger issue is that some people here

> think that children have no need to take

> responsibility or behave. THat worries me. In a

> previous era, the man would have walloped the

> child there and then as would have any passing

> neighbour.

I am no lawyer, but I don't think drenching a baby (unpleasant as it is for that baby) with water is considered assalt. There is also a reason that age 7 is considered below the age of criminal responsibility, or does the age of the child not matter in any way here?

I can barely bring myself to comment on the 'walloping the child' bit - as though this is what should have/still be happening. We have moved beyond this surely?

[sillywoman]

Otta said

"I think I am happy for someone to say "don't do that darling" to my daughter, but if they feel she needs a telling off, I'd want them to speak to me, so I could so it my way."

Given that, with variation in the words used, this is what Fuschia did, then my understanding is that you're now saying you think she acted appropriately. I which case I agree.

Sorry you don't like my tone. Takes all sorts.

[Pocket]

Honestly. Who cares? People aren't like you, or me (each of us will probably shout 'Hallelujah' on that score): people have different viewpoints and different ways of handling events. Maybe just spend a little bit of time away from the Forum, enjoy and accept the madness of life around us, and chill out a bit, eh?

Am off to practice what I preach; so thankfully won't be around to read everyone's foaming at the mouth replies.

[Otta]

Given that, with variation in the words used, this is what Fuschia did

Er, is it?

I went across to tell her that it wasn't very kind (as no patent seemed to be supervising her) and then finally her dad appeared and had a go at me!

I don't think that's the same thing. Fuschia may have preferred to have spoken to the parent, but as he wasn't about, she took it on her self to speak to the child.

When I said

"I think I am happy for someone to say "don't do that darling" to my daughter, but if they feel she needs a telling off, I'd want them to speak to me, so I could so it my way."

I meant that they could have a word if she was about to hurt herself, or was kicking the back of their chair, or if she was about to hit another kid. If she had actually done something bad, I absolutely expect someone to come to me or my wife.

If we are "not present" (we'd never be very far from her) I still don't accept that as license for them to do the telling off.

I am not suggesting that Fuschia acted "inappropriately", I am simply trying to explain to you why some people may not appreciate her behaviour in this sort of circumstance.

That in no way justifies the man swearing at her, but that is beside the point quite frankly.

[cuppa tea]

Pocket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Honestly. Who cares? People aren't like you, or

> me (each of us will probably shout 'Hallelujah' on

> that score): people have different viewpoints and

> different ways of handling events. Maybe just

> spend a little bit of time away from the Forum,

> enjoy and accept the madness of life around us,

> and chill out a bit, eh?

>

> Am off to practice what I preach; so thankfully

> won't be around to read everyone's foaming at the

> mouth replies.

What?! I love bickering on the forum! Gets it out of my system, so I can be nice to my husband instead

of bickering with him instead ;)