University Degree - advice appreciated

[helpmeoutnow]

My son has just missed out on a 2-1 degree at Goldsmiths by 1 mark! To say he is gutted is an understatement. Does anyone know if there is anything he can do about it apart from drowning his sorrows? I do feel sorry for the lad :(

[red devil]

Why would he want to do anything about it?

Has a potential employer insisted he needs a 2.1 to get a job?

Personally I've never been asked what mark I got in my degree.

Once he's out in the working world it soon becomes insignificant.

What did he study?

[tog_in_sox]

If he feels confident he got the required marks in at least one of his papers then it's worth a shot.

2.1 matters in making the cut for interview in the early years, presuming he's setting his sights higher up for grad jobs, especially now.

Subject will matter too if he's heading for very competitive prospects.

If you've got something else in the bag like previous relevant experience with a good ref (or you happen to be an international talent!) then things aren't so bad.

What is he hoping to apply for?

Once you're into your third job post grad it won't matter so much, but it still might if you haven't got other recommendations to get you past the early sifting.

I know how he feels, I missed my 1st by 2 marks and my tutors were most pissed! And it restricted my choices at the time; that year grad recruiting was down. Serves me right for trying to cram :(

Best of luck.

[Alan Medic]

May be of interest.............

[zeban]

He can absolutely appeal and I'd say go for it.

[Frankito]

It is always worth checking with his tutors what the appeals process is. Different institutions deal with these in very different ways, some good, others not so. Goldsmith's has a good reputation, hopefully theirs will be transparent enough for himto know if it is worth challenging.

To not eventry would be the biggest shame as, right now he has nothing to lose and potentially everything to gain. I strongly recommend he gets in touch with his tutors to kick-start the process. The longer it is left, the less chance of anything happening.

Whilst I agree that grades don't matter in every line of work, certainly for the more popular careers, your degree grading can make the difference between the Yes pile and the No pile at CV screening stage. I work in the City and every year, we get thousands of Uni leavers with a whole range of subjects/ grades etc. Unless there is some relevant experience thrown in the mix, there is a tendency to screen out anything <2:i. Whilst I don't agree that a great grade is any indicator that the related candidate will hit the ground running, there has to be some form of pre-selection process. Our HR guys aren't allowed to publish anything official on grade screening however I have been privvy to more than one conversation with Recruitment re minimum standards...

So, should he try but fail to change hisgrade there are a fww other options ( mostly dependent on his desired career path ). Post grad degrees are very popular these days and again, many places prefer this along with a grad degree. Or, he coyld go out and get some very relevant work experience in his chosen field, much better than more study. Unfortunately such opportunities are very competitive but, they do exist and, someone presenting themselves with truckloads of energy and a can-do attitude can make anything happen..

I hope this isn't too waffly... Do keep us posted on how he gets on. :)-D

[helpmeoutnow]

Thanks for the replies. He is upset as his tutors told him before handing in his last two essays that they would be a 2:1 and even wrote 2:1 on them . His results are published and they are both marked a 2:2 . Does anyone know if it is common and acceptable for tutors to give inaccurate advice ? To me it seems wrong, given they charge a vast amount of money to attend these institutions.

[Frankito]

Ask for an appeal, it's the only way to find out for sure. Tutors should never make promises as even they don't know how students fare at crunch time. You are grasping at straws if you are looking to lay blame, do the proper thing and get that appeal going, the longer you leave it the less chance of them taking you seriously.

[srisky]

Hi helpmeoutnow - I feel for your son.

I'm not sure if I have misunderstood your latest post....

.....did the tutors tell your son before he handed in his essays that they would be marked as a 2:1. Also, did they write 2:1 on them before reading them?? It seems grossly unfair (even unethical?) to say a piece of work will be given a certain grade prior to even looking at it??

Edited to add:

Difficult to prove, too, unless several other students were also 'told' their marks.

[indiepanda]

It probably depends what field he will be looking for work in, but I know my employer would be unlikely to look at the CV of someone with less than a 2.1, and that's been true of all my employers - I work in professional services now (big 4 firm) and previously in financial services.

I think it would be worth appealing if it's going to harm his career prospects.

[helpmeoutnow]

Frankito you are right , he is writing his appeal now. I dont think he is grasping at straws and looking to lay blame and hope they dont read it that way. He says

regarding the papers, that

tutor told him to take a bit out and swap it for something else when he thought his was better but he listened to tutor.

Tutor wrote 2.1 on the papers and other stuff but said lots in the meeting with him. Said they were both v. good .

Son submits papers and the marks come back as a 2:2. Will let you know how it goes . Thanks

[civilservant]

His essays may have been double-marked by an external examiner or second tutor, which is why his tutor's assessment was inaccurate. This is normal practice. Nothing to be lost by appealing, but if it was indeed double-marked, the likelihood of the appeal being successful may be reduced.

[helpmeoutnow]

You may very well be right civilservant. My question is , is it common and accepatable for tutors to give inaccurate assessments ?, especially given the vast amount of money they charge to attend these establishments?

[zeban]

I don't really understand what the money issue has to do with anything.

The tutor shouldn't have given an initial mark- this isn't common practice- they really shouldn't be making such statements at all. They can give you guidelines as to what's looked for at the different grading levels but that's it.

It's a shame what the tutor did and no doubt very frustrating and seemingly misleadling for your son but I think you should forget that and focus on the real issue which is just how close it was to a 2:1 and appealing to get that looked at.

[sophiesofa]

helpmeoutnow Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You may very well be right civilservant. My

> question is , is it common and accepatable for

> tutors to give inaccurate assessments ?,

> especially given the vast amount of money they

> charge to attend these establishments?

I think it completely depends on what the subject is. If the essay is subjective then the people marking them can have very different viewpoints which can affect the marking. I don't think the amount they charge to attend has anything to do with it.

[helpmeoutnow]

Well its not cheap. Personally i think it is wholly unacceptable that an establishment is giving false and inacurrate assessments to third year students whose future relies on these marks. However it is nothing to do with what i think . I will let you know how it goes . Thanks all :)

[Frankito]

Good stuff and good luck. He should think himself lucky he has a Mum who cares enough....! Bless.

:)-D

[mockney piers]

Worth a try. Where I went, in this situation of it being such a near thing, you could be granted a viva [voce], or spoken examination, and an external expert would judge how good ones grasp of the subject was and if satisfied then you could be bumped up.

I scraped my 2:1 by half a percent so I just kept very quiet about it!

[Sue]

helpmeoutnow Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He says

> regarding the papers, that

> tutor told him to take a bit out and swap it for

> something else when he thought his was better but

> he listened to tutor.

>

xxxxxxx

How can that be permissible?

And sorry to say this, but if that change had been instrumental in his getting a 2.1 rather than a 2.2, presumably he wouldn't now be appealing?