Where was East Dulwich? - 1906 (Map) (With notes about Lordship Lane railway station)

[edhistory]

This is part of the Dulwich College Estate map of 1906.

It shows where the Estate boundary runs along part of Lordship Lane. This matches the Friern Manor map of 1799.

Will people ever stop saying that the Dulwich-Friern boundary runs along Lordship Lane? I doubt it, no matter how much evidence is produced.

John K

[Townleygreen]

I presume you are saying that the Estate boundary is shown by the green line?

Interesting map.

I'd like to see more of it.

[Willard]

Interesting that East Dulwich station is called Lordship lane station. Would be great if you have more of it...

[lilolil]

That was Lordship Lane Station which ran parellel to Sydenham Hill and crossed LL . East Dulwich Station is not shown on this map!

[Tony Rabbit]

On 1st August 1865 the London, Chatham and Dover Railway opened a branch line to Crystal Palace (high level) station (now demolished). There were no stations at the time of the opening between Peckham Rye and Crytal Palace. The intermediate stations were completed soon after with the exception of Nunhead which was opened on 18th September 1871.

The branch started from Nunhead running through Honor Oak, Lordship Lane (opened 1st September 1865), Upper Sydenham, Crystal Palace (high level) stations (all now demolished).

Thanks again edhistory for more interesting history / maps.

[Willard]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That was Lordship Lane Station which ran parellel

> to Sydenham Hill and crossed LL . East Dulwich

> Station is not shown on this map!

Ok, think I've got my bearings now. Is that part of the disused railway line that runs through Dulwich woods?

[computedshorty]

We used to get the steam train from Lordship Lane station near the Hornimans Gardens to Crystal Palace.

[copleston_charlie]

Lordship Lane station, painted by Pissarro, 1871... hasn't changed much then.

http://transpont.blogspot.com/2008/12/camille-pissarros-lordship-lane-station.html

[Tony Rabbit]

computedshorty has very kindly attached a photo of Lordship Lane Station.

It was taken in 1922 from the up platform and reveals some of the intricate architectural detail that was demanded by the Dulwich College Estate, on whose land the station was constructed. (National Railway Museum)

Post war, due to bomb damage, the canopies had gone and there was a corrugated iron shed on the up side platform. The ornate lanterns were gone and the station was generally in very poor condition.

The last scheduled train ran on Saturday 18th September 1954 and on the following day a special train was run by local enthusiasts, the fare being 6 shillings.

[Townleygreen]

I wonder why there was no successful campaign to retain this line before its closure?

After all, it ran from C Palace - Upr Syd - Lordship Lane - Honor Oak - Nunhead.

That would have been a very useful line, adding to the transport connectivity of the area. If it was still going today, I can't imagine locals not fighting its closure.

How odd!

[computedshorty]

I saw the Crystal Palace burned down in 1936 the High Level station closed as there is also the Crystal Palace Low Level Station a short distance away to serve the passengers there was no need for two stations as the attraction of the Palace had gone.

The att.picture shows the passageway from the station under the road to the Crystal Palace.

[Medley]

There probably was resistance of sorts.

But:

- much of the capacity at the destination, C P, was waste once the place burned to the ground - bit like having Wembley's transport links now with no stadium but only a green space with some concrete dinosaurs;

- the line is, as so many Victorian lines were, a curious one - it doesn't make much geographic sense as it went north east from CP before looping to the west at Nunhead;

- it was in a very bad state through neglect - the wobbliness of the platforms at Honor Oak has to be seen to be believed, so would have needed significant money;

- this was in the context of rising car ownership and falling public transport use.

Don't get me wrong - as I live very close to where Honor Oak station was I would dearly love the line to still exist, would make perfect sense to have it as part of the Overground and keep the stretch on through Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill etc. just for West Croydon.

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wonder why there was no successful campaign to

> retain this line before its closure?

>

> After all, it ran from C Palace - Upr Syd -

> Lordship Lane - Honor Oak - Nunhead.

> That would have been a very useful line, adding to

> the transport connectivity of the area. If it was

> still going today, I can't imagine locals not

> fighting its closure.

>

> How odd!

[intexasatthe moment]

Townleygreen - I think we forget how easy it is these days to communicate with eachother - forums ,internet ,mobile phones .Plus think we have more leisure time .Easier to get together and campaign now than in 1954 .

[Tony Rabbit]

The Crystal Palace Loop, as it was known, reached a peak in 1911 with 98 scheduled journeys per day with additionally 'Specials' at most weekends (some coming across various networks from other parts of the country).

c2 million passengers a year were served.

It was closed for WW1 economy measures 1.1.1917 to 1.3.1919 and never recovered the previous passenger totals because the Crystal Palace had declined in popularity.

The Crystal Palace having been destroyed by fire on the night of 30th November 1936, the railway no longer had any real purpose to serve, the Lower station being able to easily cope alone with commuter traffic.

It was closed again from 21.5.1944 to 4.3.1946 for WW2 austerity measures.

After this second war-time closure and as the result of war damage and neglect, the loop was in a very poor condition.

Coming under the control of British Railways in 1948 its very poor passenger figures, the decline of freight services to the goods yard and overall state of repair, the decision was made to close it.

The last scheduled train ran on Saturday 18th September 1954 and on the following day a special train was run by local enthusiasts, the fare being 6 shillings.

***I suppose there was such a lack of local interest no-one was bothered, particularly with the extent of war damage and lack of housing etc at that time. It was said that there were more rats than passengers at the stations.

[Tony Rabbit]

Electrified (3rd rail 600 volt) 12th July 1925.

Attached photo shows 4sub unit approaching Lordship Lane station on the up line.

In the background, can just be seen, Cox's Walk footbridge. This is the original bridge which has been replaced now with a replica.

[edhistory]

Lordship Lane Station building.

John K

[Tony Rabbit]

oops ed I've got a copy of that photo from the original negative and I think when you cropped it you also flipped it. I compared it to the 1870 and 1916 edition os and its definately drawn the other way round.

I've got lots of photos of all the stations but unfortunately can't attach them at the moment because my old scanner refuses (even with updated drivers) to work with Windows 7. If you are interested I could post or PM them together with some maps at a later date when copied.

[edhistory]

That's odd.

There's a sharper image of that same photo (my way) on page 13 of The London Railway Record Number 26 January 2001.

There's a low contrast image of that same photo (your way) as plate 22 in Vic Mitchell's Crystal Palace (High Level) book of 1991.

On the evidence of the asymetrical chimney stacks in a photo taken of the buiding from the platform side I prefer my way. This photo shows some of the war damage and temporary repairs.

I'd very much like to see your photo collection.

John K

[intexasatthe moment]

I can't tell you how much I'm loving these photographs .

Used to live near this station and remember the demolition of the railway bridge over Lordship Lane ,near the turn off to Sydenham Hill .

More ,more .

[Tony Rabbit]

edhistory I've just had some wins on the Lottery (not the ?1.61m I hasten to add, not even six figures) but enough to buy a new scanner, so when up and running would very much enjoy swapping notes / photos. Perhaps we could choose to re-introduce this branch line as a new 'Thread', with photos if interest continues.

Do you know of, does anyone have any previously unpublished photos?

Thanks again for your 'historic' Threads.

[edhistory]

Tony,

It's probably best to meet in person if you want you run a small project on this. Drop by for a chat?

Meamwhile, here's a very rough photo of the Honor Oak station building. I don't think many people have seen this one.

John K

[Gary Cross]

Hello Tony,

I am very interested in your photographs of Lordship Lane station. I am currently in the process of building a model of the station as it would have been in the early 30's, any information on the station, including maps would be very useful. We have already built a model of Crystal Palace High Level station which is nearing completion, photos can be seen on our website [email protected] and our model can be viewed by you if wish by prior arrangement. There are some good photographs in the book Crystal Palace High Level by John Gale (Lightmoor Press) and Crystal Palace and Catford Loop by Middleton Press (they too, have a photograph of Lordship Lane station where the negative has been reversed)

Kind regards, Gary

[creditwheredue]

I remember your club working on that station model in Camberwell must be about twenty years ago now. In the school in Valmar Road, Camberwell.

[George Orwell]

These 2 sites may be useful to those who are interested:

https://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/quick-search?q=Crystal%20palace%20High%20level&WINID=1576166213483

https://medium.com/@videosoul/mapping-the-crystal-palace-high-level-railway-15fda3176b9d