Brick House Cafe "is not a creche"

[edcam]

Because they didn't get this wrong. Good for them for sticking to their guns and not being bullied.

Bagpipes Wrote:

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> Poor judgment from the Brick House Bakery owners

> from start to finish. How about offering the mum a

> coffee and a cake and and acknowledgment that BHB,

> in the heat of the moment, got this wrong? That

> this has become a three day event is entirely down

> to the owners (idiotically) digging their heels

> in.

[dbboy]

All this has done is give BHB loads of free publicity, i.e. on here, ITV news, discussion on This Morning plus no doubt others which you couldn't buy.

And I bet their regulars are still their regulars.

[Bagpipes]

Nigello Wrote:

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>Crying babies is not a nice sound, but neither are

> sneezing fits, coughing, loud phone conversations

Quite. But then again I doubt they would have gone up to a bloke having a loud conversation and asked him to do it outside. Mums are an easy target.

BHB can't have it both ways. They can't claim baby friendliness and kick one out for doing precisely what babies do, ie cry. Ditch the high chairs and milk warmers and associated clientele if you can't cope with a few minutes of crying.

[Angelina]

I'm afraid the mum in question has been set to represent the common attitude of 'mums' in ED - which as a generalisation is one of excessive self importance to the disregard of everyone else.

And the most of ED seems to side with the cafe.

[Nigello]

How can it be possibly cowardly, in the age of instant outrage and on-all-the-time social media, to ask a mother to quieten a baby? If you had said it was brave (or even foolhardy), that would work - but only because we are living in a country and at a time where do-as-you-please entitlement is rife and asking people to conform to neutral behaviour in a is akin to insulting them and depriving them of their rights. A proprietor ought to have the right to ask any customer to leave/be quiet/never darken their door again and I cannot believe such rights would be abused by an obviously middle-class, well-educated and savvy businessman as the owner of the cafe (which I have only been to once as I find it too dear).

[edcam]

I would hope that they would have asked him to do so. If a behaviour is irritating to other customers then a business has a right to intervene.

Bagpipes Wrote:

> Quite. But then again I doubt they would have gone

> up to a bloke having a loud conversation and asked

> him to do it outside. Mums are an easy target.

>

[NewWave]

May I add here that in the midst of all this the poor employee who complained to the mother at the behest of another customer may well be at risk of losing their job due to all the media attention.

And possible negative impact on the business.

No one knows how tough a day that poor staff member was having when she or he acted in what she or he perhaps thought was the customer?s best interest.

I?m sure Resturant Work is not very well paid. Neither is it the easiest of jobs.

It isn?t the kind of work you?d do for fun. No one has realised the much deeper possible repercussions of this whole furor that of someone being sacked from their job. Not being able to pay their rent... etc etc

[NewWave]

We all make errors of judgement.

Say things we shouldn?t have. This is a massive over reaction which could have dire personal consequences for someone who acted in what they felt was the customer?s best interests.

Sorry to go on about this but those of us who don?t need to wait on the general public are privileged.

Sometimes the customer is right sometimes they aren?t.

In this world of social media people are very quick to complain and point fingers without thinking of the possible repercussions.

[granadaland]

?

[rendelharris]

Nigello Wrote:

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> How can it be possibly cowardly, in the age of

> instant outrage and on-all-the-time social media,

> to ask a mother to quieten a baby? If you had said

> it was brave (or even foolhardy), that would work

> - but only because we are living in a country and

> at a time where do-as-you-please entitlement is

> rife and asking people to conform to neutral

> behaviour in a is akin to insulting them and

> depriving them of their rights. A proprietor ought

> to have the right to ask any customer to leave/be

> quiet/never darken their door again and I cannot

> believe such rights would be abused by an

> obviously middle-class, well-educated and savvy

> businessman as the owner of the cafe (which I have

> only been to once as I find it too dear).

I meant it was cowardly for the complaining customer to go to the staff with the complaint rather than addressing the mother directly. I'm not averse to complaining about bad manners and I have asked people in pubs to control their children when they're running about misbehaving, but I don't expect staff to do the asking - if it annoys you enough, ask yourself. If the complaining customer had done so in this instance maybe it could have been sorted out between two private individuals rather than creating such a media furore.

[rendelharris]

NewWave Wrote:

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> In this world of social media people are very

> quick to complain and point fingers without

> thinking of the possible repercussions.

You mean like people who described the mother who was asked to go outside as "a snivelling shit who ran to the press about this"? Couldn't agree more.

[DovertheRoad]

This thread has been helpful and I have fixed a sign to my baby that says "Baby - Warning: Might Cry" which I plan to wear on my baby Bjorn when going for coffee. Hopefully this will help communicate the situation to all.

[Amanda1979]

Poor employee? According to the news report it was the wife of the cafe owner who spoke to the mum.

[Bagpipes]

NewWave Wrote:

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> We all make errors of judgement.

> Say things we shouldn?t have. This is a massive

> over reaction which could have dire personal

> consequences for someone who acted in what they

> felt was the customer?s best interests.

> Sorry to go on about this but those of us who

> don?t need to wait on the general public are

> privileged.

> Sometimes the customer is right sometimes they

> aren?t.

> In this world of social media people are very

> quick to complain and point fingers without

> thinking of the possible repercussions.

1) BHB owners made multiple errors of judgment, especially thinking going on ITV London news was a good idea. Yes we are all human, and all get things wrong. However most sensible people don't blunder into a course of action that exacerbates a situation, particularly when they are in the service industry and have seen this issue has provoked strong feelings from their customers.

2) Dire personal consequences argument = straw man. The culture in any business is set from the top. And what's more, the owners have confirmed to all that they fully endorse the employee's actions.

3) Agree with m'collegue RendelHarris above re his/her insightful comment about social media!

4) The owners are pulling the classic stunt of pretending *they* are the victims when in fact their cafe (remember the culture is set at the top) chose to pick on someone who probably wasn't going to fight back with a 3 month old baby. What utter pilchards.

[Bagpipes]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> This thread has been helpful and I have fixed a

> sign to my baby that says "Baby - Warning: Might

> Cry" which I plan to wear on my baby Bjorn when

> going for coffee. Hopefully this will help

> communicate the situation to all.

Hahahaha!

[Nigello]

Babies cry but parents have the power of reason and mobility. So, when baby cries, what will you do?

[rendelharris]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Babies cry but parents have the power of reason

> and mobility. So, when baby cries, what will you

> do?

Well personally, when looking after the babies of friends or family, I'd try to pacify it and if I couldn't I'd go outside - but I'd hope for a little more than three minutes' grace before being asked to do so. People sitting in caf?s have the power of reason too and maybe should exercise it by saying to themselves, "That woman's baby's crying, I can put up with that for a few minutes before going and complaining to the management and asking her to go outside - by golly, maybe I could even go over and say hello and see if there's something I could do to help."

[dbboy]

yep baby was probably hungry or tired or needed a nappy change, who knows, it was an unfortunate thing to happen to the women involved.

RH - well put about going over to ask if something could have been done, if the owner had done that this situation may not have escalated to the levels it has. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the owner is probably quietly wishing the situation had been handled differently. A learning experience for everyone involved, all those who have commented, seen or heard about this situation.

[cazfay]

Am I missing something? A. When Babies cry, they tend to need milk/ cuddles/Nappy change.. so how is it helpful sending the baby outside? B It?s freezing at the moment. It would take me several mins to get my baby wrapped up in their snowsuit in order for me to take them outside without catching a cold. So how on Earth on either account was is remotely acceptable to send the poor thing outside? It?s a baby, it was upset. End of.

So, Bakery Baby Gate. Mixed opinions fairly balanced on both sides. But two key points which make me think the cafe is in the wrong- if they promote themselves as Baby friendly, by providing high chairs etc, then they need to accept babies will come in and possibly cry. Secondly, it's a cafe, not a office/ library/ private members club, and people make noise. Including babies. Hardly the crime of the century...

[Amanda1979]

Agree with Cazfay.

And it would take longer to get packed up and wrapped up to go outside than it would to let a baby feed for example.

[Bagpipes]

cazfay Wrote:

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> Am I missing something? A. When Babies cry, they

> tend to need milk/ cuddles/Nappy change.. so how

> is it helpful sending the baby outside?

You're not missing anything. Motivation was not to be helpful to mother or baby. They thought they could push both around, didn't think they'd be found out and then when they were, claimed *they* were the victims. The sheer brass neck of it.

[Angelina]

dbboy Wrote:

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> yep baby was probably hungry or tired or needed a

> nappy change, who knows, it was an unfortunate

> thing to happen to the women involved.

>

> RH - well put about going over to ask if something

> could have been done, if the owner had done that

> this situation may not have escalated to the

> levels it has. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and

> the owner is probably quietly wishing the

> situation had been handled differently. A learning

> experience for everyone involved, all those who

> have commented, seen or heard about this

> situation.

I think ddboy's comment sums this up neatly and eloquently and should be the close of the matter.

[Nigello]

Would it not have been equally as good for the person who complained back, the friend of the "victim", to have argued the toss face-to-face on site, rather than on social media? Nothing "good" comes of emoting online in these situations. If you're being noisy, or your child is, just be aware at the very least. An honest conversation in person would have been the best way around this, instead we have boring and predictable "tribes" ganging up on one another. If you just apply the question "is my behaviour the best for everyone" to your actions - mother, father, cafe owner, pedestrian, driver - much would be better.

[DovertheRoad]

#EDFClassicThread

[Bagpipes]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> #EDFClassicThread

Hard to beat "strange bottles of orange liquid" though!