edhistory Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Our valley is immediately south west of the Isle of Dogs.The map shows the probable high water mark of the River Thames about 10 000 BC.John KEDIT 2011-07-03: More interesting thread titleEDIT 2011-07-04: Reversion to original thread title Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
katie1997 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Please don't show the Anthropocene in East Dulwich. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-450932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockney piers Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 You can achieve the same effect using thus google mashups site of rising sea levelshttp://flood.firetree.net/?ll=51.4921,-0.0625&z=5&m=9 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-450941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Mockney Piers:Have I got news for you.There were no roads or railways in 10 000 BC.The "about" file on flood.firetree.net is careful to explain the data sources, their limitations, and how the data has been transformed. As you can see, this is an inappropriate data set for modelling our valley's landscape.It is not possible using this data set to achieve the same effect as using Ordnance Survey data.However we can use this inappropriate data set as a demonstrator for some of points worth further investigation with more accurate data.[1] Set the view to Hybrid.[2] Centre the map to Goose Green roundabout.[3] Change the Sea level rise to +20 m.[4] There are now three stand-alone blue blocks. The clunky nature of these is explained in the "about" file.[5] The blue block on Peckham Rye Common doesn't need any explanation.[6] The blue block to the north of Grove Vale is part of the Grove Vale Depression. Because of the vertical scale intervals you cannot see the rest of the depression south of Grove Vale. However, if you walk along Grove Vale and look along the side roads you can see it quite clearly. The historical implications are for another thread.EDIT 2011-07-06: Goodbye depression. There is a small channel between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.[7] The blue block north of Abbotswood Road is the demolition layer of Constance Road Workhouse.[8] The whole of the land between Dog Kennel Hill and Red Post Hill is heavily engineered.[9] Re-centre the map to the junction of Townley Road and Lordship Lane.[10] Change the Sea level rise to +30 m.[11] The shape of the lower part of our valley is now visible.[12] The Peck/Effra watershed is now visible [13] The Herne Hill Gap is now visible.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asset Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm stuffed if it goes to +30 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 "The blue block north of Abbotswood Road is the demolition layer of Constance Road Workhouse." Fascinating -- http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Camberwell/ tells one a great deal -- but... how does that fact make the patch in question soggier than elsewhere? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prickle Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 "[6] The blue block to the north of Grove Vale is part of the Grove Vale Depression. Because of the vertical scale intervals you cannot see the rest of the depression south of Grove Vale. However, if you walk along Grove Vale and look along the side roads you can see it quite clearly. The historical implications are for another thread. "I'm intrigued - what is the Grove Vale Depression and what are the historical implications? Could you explain in a nutshell? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Alex K:I didn't know that patch was soggier.I've attached the Constance Road Workhouse borehole report so you can see what lies below.[The victorian reference to London Clay is obsolete].John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 prickle:The Grove Vale Depression displays itself as a shallow basin from which water cannot drain naturally.I don't know what it is. My first thought is that there is a clay lens which has compressed a lower layer of mixed clay/sand/gravel. Further research is required.It is too subtle to read from a map or a LIDAR dataset. You will need to walk Grove Vale and see it for yourself.EDIT 2011-07-06: There is a small channel between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townleygreen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 John KIts a nice map that you have posted, but please could I ask you to give us a key? What do the colours mean? That makes a map really useful.Thanks for your postings by the way - very interesting Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmorg Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Alex K Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Camberwell/ tells one> a great deal. So St Francis Road used to be Constance Road and the Abbotswood Road area was a large Victorian workhouse, later converted to a wing of the hospital. Very interesting. I wonder if the secret tunnel under the railway line still exists?? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 John K - on drainage north of Grove Vale:Greenwood's map of 1830 seems to show a stream running along what is now Bellenden Rd - see here http://www.motco.com/map/81003/Zooming in, it seems to show a number of bridges e.g. with what is probably Maxted Rdhttp://www.motco.com/map/81003/SeriesSearchPlatesFulla.asp?mode=query&artist=385&other=753&x=11&y=11and http://www.motco.com/map/81003/SeriesSearchPlatesFullb.asp?mode=query&artist=385&other=752&x=11&y=11 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 mikeb:I've merged the two relevant 1820 map tiles and removed the overlap.Either the 1820 map is not to scale or whoever scanned it introduced an East-West distortion.Nevertheless the adjusted overlay is accurate to within a few yards.The discontinuous drainage ditch goes Northerly from the edge of the depression.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
prickle Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Fascinating - so Bellenden Road was built over the ditch/stream. The mash up really shows the development of the area. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Great overlay - I think the accuracy of the map is pretty good for its time. (incidentally, I thought the 1820 map didn't extend this far south - was that a typo? http://users.bathspa.ac.uk/greenwood/map_i7m.html)Looking closely, the field boundary cutting across Marsden and Muschamp Roads reminds me of this discussion about Marsden Road and subsidence: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,28744,29112#msg-29112A shame Macroban isn't still around - she would have enjoyed this.[edited twice to include correct link to the old thread] Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-451567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thanks MikeB,I think it's now clarified as an artefact of urbanisation. I've put some blue arrows following the contours on the 1856 Water Map. This shows the likely natural drainage line. I've not done an overlay but it looks like the arrows join up with the drainage ditch on the 1820 map.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-452023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 The County Series has contours. I have marked the 50' contour in red. There is a "channel" in the back gardens between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.That looks like the end of the Grove Vale Depression that I have known and loved for 40 years.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-452041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 ...the Peckham Sewer.As the stream crossed the East Dulwich Parish boundary it went into a branch of the Earl Sewer.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-469461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeckhamRose Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 And the reason Highshore Road is called Highshore Road?Just askin'.Actually I seem to remember going on a Peckham Society walk and whoever was leading - Peter Frost probably - said Highshore Road was so called because if the Thames were to flood it would not get higher than High Shore. Or maybe he didn't. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-469463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 It's quite plausible that the great floods of 1300 and 1649 (someone check these dates) reached as far as the old Thames river bank near Highshore Road. Nineteenth century floods only seem to have reached as far as the canal basin.I don't know much about Peckham history. Whichever of us who sees Peter next can ask him about his sources(s).John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-469554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibilly99 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 If only you could have bought in the Anthropocene period - you'd be minted now as well as fossilised. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-469556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhistory Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 John Beasley very kindly took a photograph of the old stream bed for me.Unfortunately there's too much foliage. We need a winter-time photo.But I still think the photo is worth sharing as it is an unusual/unique view of this part of East Dulwich.John K Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-469557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Plenty of digging going on at the moment in this area for the gas mains - might reveal something interesting about the history of the terrainhttp://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,757322,757322#msg-757322 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/18191-the-east-dulwich-nunhead-thames-riverbank-in-the-late-devensian-to-holocene-transition-map/#findComment-492346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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