Support for our childrens teachers and staff

[Marmora Man]

Anyway whatever Mamora 'man mountain' states naked in socks and swerving some of the more negative facts, here are just some of the people that disagree with you pet.

Teachers, lecturers, education managers and support staff , Lecturers and other university and college staff, Head teachers and leaders at other education establishments, Court and job centre staff, border, customs and immigration officers, air traffic controllers and police support staff - among others, Local authority staff, NHS employees, police service workers, colleges and school staff - among others.....

Don't get too high on the adrenalin of strike action. The numbers weren't as high as predicted. Public support for the strike appears to be ambivalent at best. The fact that unions can mobilise a, reasonably, large number of strikers does not make their argument logical, sensible or right.

The fact remains that the average public sector pension is heavily subsidised by the taxpayer - in a way, and to an degree, that private sector pensions are not. You and your fan club have yet to make an argument as to why tax payers should fund over two thirds of the cost of public sector pensions - when those same tax payers enjoy a far less generous pension scheme and receive, on average, a slightly lower income which at work.

[georgegarrett]

Oh poor poor Mamora Man.....the facts

95% of all the 7500000 balloted members went on strike.....yes that's 1 in 10 of the 8 million who could and will possibly next time be balloted....its a pretty clear warning

C4 news showed that 77% of the public supported the strike....yes you foolish boy thats 77%. John boy Redwood on R4 just admitted it.....they / you have problems. Even the unions were taken aback by the support from the public, private sector included.

Now dive dive dive you big hunk of right wing wind ! I hear a chopper overhead.

[Mick Mac]

It's easy to take a day off.

Come into London and join the protest? No thanks ill stay at home and watch the tennis.

[Loz]

georgegarrett Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh poor poor Mamora Man.....the facts

>

> 95% of all the 7500000 balloted members went on

> strike.....yes that's 1 in 10 of the 8 million who

> could and will possibly next time be

> balloted....its a pretty clear warning

It's pretty damning if true (though I think you are a '0' out). A few tube drivers go on strike and London grinds to a halt. A whole load of the public sector goes on strike and life pretty much continues as normal.

Have they just proved we can cut more?

[tog_in_sox]

rah, rah, rah, 77%

What're the odds that of that 77% the majority had no clue about the actual terms of the proposals and where that left psws?

What're the odds that once apprised of said new terms and their meaning that <77% would be supportive?

What're the odds that a fair %'age of the 77% actually support the cause not because they care about the inconvenience and impact to psws but because people like to object to whatever the government of the day propose by way of change?

I have some other observations and questions:

1) If we managed to restore respect from and authority over students for teachers and lecturers would they agree to a significant pay and benefits cut because their lives were now much more rewarding and far less stressful? Would we be justified in asking them to?

2) Is it only the Government's (not just this coalition) responsibility to pursue this utopia for teachers?

3) Who is to blame for the behaviour of pupils and students?

4) How much support is there truly for the civil service bureaucrats anonymously processing into implementation both rightly and wrongly the multitude of constraints we are bound to live under? Would you rather continue to subsidise their above average existence and prosperity or that they chose to strike because they objected to all the crap they were being asked to do in their day jobs that made everyone's life that bit more demanding?

5) Given that the next generations appear to have an even greater sense of entitlement I dread to think what the future psws will be like if this and future governments are unable to staunch the rupture that is public sector spending inflamed by overly generous benefits and staggering fiscal incompetence at both national and local levels.

6) Is more respect shown to teachers in private/grammar school classrooms? Do they have more authority?

7) Just because a whole bunch of people scream their lot is unfair does not make them right. True righteousness is not brought by force of numbers alone. US anyone? USSR? China? Ghandhi? Aung San Suu Kyi?

8) Anyone prefer numbered lists over bulletpoints?

9) When reading instructions or information would you rather just the salient points be presented concisely or rather have swathes of irrelevant prose spun all around from which to extract the facts?

10) There are many worthy professions and trades represented within the public sector and there are plenty more that are extremely ordinary, some even less so. On the one hand why should they all be entitled to the same generous benefits whilst on the other why should any be entitled to more than anyone else?

11) Is there an irony in the fact that many of these psws claim to be liberal or socialist whilst at the same time they are attempting to protect their elite status?

rah, rah rah average pension ?10275 ... 5023...

These are only low because the AVERAGE is calculated across all civil servants many of whom may not have spent 40+ years contributing whilst attaining great responsibility and remuneration.

Those persons who didn't spend all their working lives as a psw will likely have continued to seek and gain employment in the private sector and guess what paid into a pension if they were the least bit responsible for their own old age.

Most of us will retire with a patchwork of pension plans we've held together with what little spare we thought we had in the (vain?) hope that it'll be enough to keep us in shelter and health for the 15+ years of retirement without employment earnings. If you intend to be a fully pensioned PSW just sit down and think this one through: Say your pension entitlement was ?30k pa. Your final salary was ?45k after 40 years of service, of which you only set aside 3.2% for pension. Even if you had been paid ?45k all your years of contributing you would have set aside c. ?58k, not enough to cover even 1/8 of your years of retirement, how reasonable and fair is it that everyone else pay for your elevated upkeep for the remaining years, having paid you above average earnings your entire career?

[georgegarrett]

Eh !

SKUNK ALERT, SKUNK ALERT, SKUNK ALERT !

clouds of the sweet stuff.

[Marmora Man]

GG - you make the mistake of believing your own propaganda. This morning's press seem to rate yesterday's action at somewhere between "damp squib" [The Times], "respectable but not overwhelming" [Guardian] and "low turn out" [Telegraph].

The official opposition signally failed to endorse the strikes. On QT last night even Polly Toynbee struggled to make a case for the strike.

The planned disruption failed to appear - 33% of schools remained fully open, another 33% were partially open. Airports carried on as usual, as did most of the civil service. Little solidarity was apparent from the general public.

Strikes don't resolve arguments - rational discourse and discussion might. I have not been persuaded by yesterday that your cause has any logic, justice or right on its side.

[StraferJack]

slightly OT, but I saw someone mention last night that Polly is turning into Alan Partridge's assistant, Lynn. Which made me chuckle

[Chippy Minton]

A few tube drivers go on strike and London grinds to a halt. A whole load of the public sector goes on strike and life pretty much continues as normal.

Have they just proved we can cut more?

What exactly did you expect? If your life continued as normal presumably you work in the private sector, didn't have to go and sign on, go on holiday, your kids are taught by a teacher that is either not in a union or is in the NASUWT etc. etc but there were plenty of people who's stories were reported in the press and on TV that did seemed to be affected.

The planned disruption failed to appear - 33% of schools remained fully open, another 33% were partially open.

So that means two thirds of schools were affected right? So if you then consider the NASUWT, which represents over a third of teachers, wasn't on strike I'd say that the disruption yesterday had about as much impact as any of the striking unions could have planned.

[Mick Mac]

My children went to school as normal, thanks to both their teachers at Goodrich coming into work.

[katie1997]

I was going to say that I blame those 'socialists' for letting the bankers have their way but let's face it, dear Tony and Gordon were far from that. They might as well have been lightening the regulations on banks along with Thatcher.

Danny Alexander - shame on you. Why go into politics when he had such a peachy job as Press Officer for the Cairngorms National Park?

[Loz]

I was going to say that I blame those 'socialists' for letting the bankers have their way but let's face it, dear Tony and Gordon were far from that. They might as well have been lightening the regulations on banks along with Thatcher.

What do you mean 'might as well'. Blair and Brown opened up banking regulations more than Maggie ever dared. It did, however, mean that London overtook NY as the financial centre of the world. On the other hand it did precipitate a world recession. Though you could argue that, as someone, somewhere would have done the same, the recession would have happened anyway. At least we got the cream while it lasted.

And don't forget, Ed M is no socialist either. Mainly because socialism hasn't been a vote winner for years, and I doubt ever will be again. If you want to be in government, cling as closely as you can to the centre, whilst doing enough to keep your more left/right leaning members happy.

[katie1997]

I really didn't know that Labour opened up banking regs way more than the Tories ever did!

And that must be why all parties seem to be the same now if they are all clinging to the centre to stay in power.

[Alan Medic]

Off to the Drawing Room please. This is the Lounge which is for..........well, not this sort of stuff.