Trial work days at a resturant, paid or not?

[Shamos]

Goodday to you all,

I have a beautiful bright and well mannered seventeen your old student that is looking of some part-time work. she has had two interviews and trial days at two restaurants. First in Brixton that said they didn't hire her, no reason and unpaid. Second one on Bellenden road. Who said YES after the trial shift and then messaged her the following morning to say they can't hire her because she is under 18, maybe in the future with someone supervising at all times. funny first thing they asked her was how old she is?.

Are some of these "Job App" being used by business to cover shifts at last minute notice. leaving applicants with no real job opportunity and without pay.

Very sad to see my young person struggling and being set back in this way, as she is so eager to do well for herself when and she has taken all the steps herself to find work.

Wondering if anyone could shed more light on this or experiences of their own.

Hope you all enjoy a restfull Sunday.

Kind Regards

Shamos

[tomskip]

I'm sure it's not the first time I've read about this scam on the EDF.

Why not name and shame the restaurants? It's terrible treatment of young people looking for work.

[womanofdulwich]

Did she get any tips?

[beansprout]

Agree with tomskip...name & shame

PM me and I may be able to help

[Jules-and-Boo]

my friend did this - it was quite clear they were just after free labour as they made her do a full 12 hour shift. Then nothing.

The next restaurant asked her to come in for a few hours as a trial and at the end of it, invited her to start working for them.

so, can't say there is a blanket scam going on, but it would be interesting to see how many people do get hired by these places.....

[Pugwash]

It is not just youngsters they are using for cheap labour. A family member in his 40s signed on with Reed Agency and was given a job with the Post Office in Bromley in the sorting office. He did 3 days work starting at 7.30 am and on the 3rd day, the sorting office refused to keep him on as they wanted someone with sorting office experience. He had told Reed that he did not have the experience and was told that the PO would train him. He asked for 3 days wages and was refused on the grounds that he had not completed a full week. As he was effectively 'sacked' by PO he was not entitled to any money.

[intexasatthe moment]

Quite common for supply teaching assistants to be asked to do unpaid trial days in schools .

Though using someone and then telling them they;re too young is out of order .

[indiepanda]

This sounds a bit dodgy. I see the rules on alcohol & young people on the government's web site say:-

Working in a restaurant or bar under 18: You can serve alcohol in a restaurant if you?re 16 or 17 as long as the licence holder or bar manager has approved the sale.

Maybe this is what they mean about supervision - someone needs to approve each time she places an order including alcohol so that makes it onerous to hire her. Completely unreasonable to use her for free labour in the meantime though. Maybe instead of using an app she should visit all the cafes that aren't licenced to serve alcohol and speak to them direct about work?

When I was a teenager looking for vacation work I can recall walking along Southend sea front going into every cafe asking for work till I found someone who needed someone. And there was no unpaid trial either. Not well paid mind you, but that was pre-minimum wage and I enjoyed the work and they were happy to have me come back every vacation throughout university.

[Shamos]

Hi everyone,

I hadn?t realised the admin team have moved my post to the Lounge.

Thank you all for your comments.

Thank you tomskip, beansprout for supporting some action on our part.

Three little birds in Brixon, the second I won't name yet, see if they call her in a month or two.

Womenofdulwich. I will have to ask her, thank you.

Jules-and-Boo. They may be hope yet! Thankyou.

Pugwash. This is just so sad, I think out of order, well... he probably had travel expenses, lunch and of all many hours, all wasted. I hope he is doing well now.

Intexasatthe moment. I have been helping out at a school nursery for a few years now. I agree with you on this. As with everything local government, cutbacks in education never helps.

Indiepanda. I looked at some info on this seems a bit grey but an official site says the are not obliged to pay. Seams they have no responsibility to pay, and they say it's at their disaggregation. I agree with you, in the past was a more direct approach to employers was good and worked well.

I have advised my daughter to ask more questions before starting a trial. She said ?I don't want to come across rude and demanding? and I replied ?use a squeaky curious tone? she wasn?t impressed.

Good day to you all.

[IlonaM]

You could get some advice from ACAS ( http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042 ) - they offer advice by email and there is also a phone helpline.

[redjam]

Your daughter sounds bright and sensible, Shamos; I'm sure she'll get something soon as she's clearly got a good attitude. How horrible that these places have taken advantage of her. Hope it doesn't put her off and that she finds a good job soon.

[JohnL]

It should be a two way process - does your daughter like the roles - or can she gain anything from these.

I remember doing a non paid years ago in a medical physics lab of the local hospital - actually a lot of these physicists were being prosecuted for mistakes at that time and - it wasn't for me (maybe too responsible)

[maxxi]

My OH manages a place in town and they often give trials but never for more than a couple of hours - they're unpaid as the person on trial needs supervising and observing - but certainly never whole shifts. If successful a (paid) probationary period usually follows.

Under 18s are not employed as they may be required to serve alcohol.

[Pugwash]

My relative was plunged into depression - loss of confidence, it also caused a relationship breakdown as he could not contribute to household expenses. Also advised as 'sacked' not eligible for benefits.

[Shamos]

Thank you IlonaM I did take a look. I think its helped, just taking it off my chest and talking to you all.

[Shamos]

Thank you maxxi for your comments. I believe under 18's can work within a supervised environment. I hope it is just for a few hours, and if it's serving paying customers, not sure if it's so fair it being unpaid. If the business truly wants to invest in a new staff member, a few hours on the books as trainee shouldn?t be unthinkable.

[Shamos]

Pugwash. Sorry to hear the news, still, I wish them well and hope there is a brighter future for them somewere.

[Shamos]

Hi JohnL, Yes I agree it should always be a two way process. I think a role in a medical physics lab might be just that bit more interesting and inspiring for curious young minds than waiting on people. However. These young people already do a two-week work experience before they leave school. My daughter realy enjoyed working at architecture firm, she was very lucky to get a spot there. Thanks to a very nice and kind man taking her on at a last minute notice. And thank you for your comments.

[KidKruger]

Any restaurant which takes-on unqualified and inexperienced staff for an entire day shift with the intention of not keeping the staff on is mad.

The reputation of restaurant would suffer due to poor (inexperienced) service.

[tiddles]

Definitely should be paid for a trial shift -regardless of future employment

[Shamos]

Hi KidKruger, I agree that done in this way the service may suffer. However, If there is a concern of the quality of the service dropping. I would recommend very short shifts to ease them into the environment, a feedback of their performance for them to go away and think about and a repeat until the management is happy to offer them a full shift. This could be done at time when service is not so demanding.

Thank you for your comments.

[muffins78]

In a nutshell - without doubt - all hours worked should be paid at least National Minimum Wage! This is just based on the particular scenarios described above. There can be nuances- but not in these instances!

I?m shocked at what I?ve read, for various reasons.

Sorry I?m keeping this brief, but the hours worked should be paid.

[Huggers]

My 19"year old son did an entire unpaid trial shift at the begging bowl as a kitchen porter and never heard from them again.

[JoeLeg]

Knowing what I do of the people who run the Begging Bowl, I?m sadly not at all surprised.

Not a place I would ever give money to.

On the general topic, I personally feel it?s not unreasonable to ask someone to spend up to two hours in a restaurant on a simple trial to establish basic competence. I see it essentially as a sign of good faith on both parties that they are serious about the application process; many people don?t turn up for interview, trial shift or even to start work after being offered a job. This short session should be about both sides getting to know each other, as the job application process goes both ways.

Anything over two hours should be paid at a respectable rate, relative to the position in question. It?s certainly what I do.

[Shamos]

Just a taught. Is a trainee insured for accidents or injury at a trial session if they are not on the books? Thank you muffin78, Huggers and JoeLeg for contributing to this topic.