Idiots on the road!

[rcmacf]

My years on powered 2 wheels has almost certainly saved serious injury to myself and others, perhaps even lives. The "lifesaver" previously mentioned is a a quick look over your shoulder before turning, changing lanes, sometimes even before slowing, or just because your Spidey sense is tingling. I still do it when driving the car. Yesterday it saved a cyclist serious harm as he undertook me whilst I turned left (indicating for some time). It also gives you a very clear sense of what other road users may be about to do, based on the attitude of their vehicles. It's tough to describe, but can be a tiny creep forward, a lane drift, a steering twitch.

Anyway, my point is that a period of time on a motorcycle or scooter is an enormous benefit to all road users, and it's a shame that more of us don't do it - probably due to the weather and the childish stigma attached to scooters when compared to European attitudes as a whole.

So, if you'd like to improve your road safety, awareness, fun, efficiency, footprint, friends then get onto powered 2 wheels.

You can even try it for free: www.geton.co.uk

"The Get On ride gives you the opportunity to experience riding a motorbike or scooter without committing to the costs of training. This way you can see for yourself, without any obligation, just what fun it is ? we?re pretty sure once you?ve tried it you?ll be hooked!"

[DulwichLondoner]

Well, a big difference is that in many European countries you can ride a 125cc scooter or motorcycle with your car licence. Whether that's fair, I'm not so sure - I'm inclined to think not. My impression is that London has more motorcycles than scooters, whereas in Madrid Paris and Milan it's the opposite - but it's just an impression.

Another difference, pointed out to me by an English police motorcyclist, is that, while in many European countries pretty much everyone, even those who don't ride themselves, knows someone they do, here there's loads of people who don't know a single motorcyclist. This contributes to the feeling of bikers being a "separate group", something completely different many people find it hard to relate to. I found the explanation a bit too metaphysical, but there may be some truth to it.

[stringvest]

If everyone considered everyone else, there wouldn't be any problems. I try to actually "think" for everyone else on the road and anticipate all eventualities and silly things they will do?

I have driven everything from a bicycle, large yahama scooter, sports cars and large vans .... so I get other peoples perspectives and needs and try consider them.

You do seem to get some cyclists that seem to want to own the road and are pious yet they pay nothing towards the routes that are being made for them, the motorists do. One went past and punched my boot, just because they could ... they just had a problem with cars, doing it to other vehicles too! What could we do sat there in the q of traffic. They are not trained, insured or licensed.

You get scooter pizza bikes constantly darting in and out, if they are not just hovering at your rear where you can't see them properly waiting to overtake somewhere silly like crossings or islands.

I have left a large gap infront of my car so that an emergency vehicle can get through, or a large lorry turn right only for the necessary gap be filled by an idiot behind me, thinking I can get in the gap, totally messing everyone up? This happens a lot. You try to let the traffic flow, and some wally stops it ...

I try use all the road, you can go past parked cars and someone will open the door suddenly ... or WORSE they are piddling around with kids and shopping, decanting them all in the road INSTEAD OF OPENING THE DOOR ON THE PAVEMENT SIDE????

When I sold my scooter to a young man, I gave him an extra "CBT" lesson before I let him set off home, as it was larger than he was used to. I told him to use the middle of the road, not get stuck in the kerb with the potholes and opening car doors. I told him to not speed and realise that as he went along, other people might not see him, be prepared. Never brake to sharply or the back could skid, or he could end up over the front. I told him to stick to the middle of his chosen lane, and don't be harassed by other drivers. I told him to ring me if he got stuck anywhere and I would come along and help. I got a phone call from his very grateful parents to say thank-you for all my help and getting their son back home safely.

Common sense, consideration and a bit of respect would be nice, we are all mums, dads, sisters, sons and daughters, I think if you treat others like you would expect your family to be treated .....

[rendelharris]

stringvest Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You do seem to get some cyclists that seem to want

> to own the road and are pious yet they pay nothing

> towards the routes that are being made for them,

> the motorists do.

God almighty, does this really have to be said again? I suppose so...roads (and cycle lanes) are paid for from general taxation and council tax. There is no "road tax" which motorists pay for the roads - like the NHS, the police, etc etc, we all pay for them whether we use them or not. Cyclists pay these taxes just like everyone else. Furthermore most cyclists also own cars or motorcycles and pay Vehicle Excise Duty too. You want to call them pious that's fine, that's your opinion, don't say they don't pay for the roads because it's simply not true.

[malumbu]

(a) some cyclists that seem to want to own the road

We all own the road. Car tax and fuel tax are both general taxation.

(b) I'd love to see cyclists offered similar levels of training.

Bikeability that they do at schools. Most excellent. And various other schemes for adults, probably once upon a time local authority funded.

Oh they do still fund training https://www.cycleconfident.com/sponsors/southwark/

© motorcycle training.

Great mistake in the early 80s when a local authority national scheme working with local clubs was scrapped - that is how I learned. Then progressively tougher test regimes etc.

(d) This contributes to the feeling of bikers being a "separate group", something completely different many people find it hard to relate to.

We've always been a separate group with huge swathes of society frothing at the mouths.

When I get me moped out on the road I'm going to ride ride ride

 

[bodsier]

rcmacf Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My years on powered 2 wheels has almost certainly

> saved serious injury to myself and others, perhaps

> even lives. The "lifesaver" previously mentioned

> is a a quick look over your shoulder before

> Yesterday it saved a cyclist serious harm as he

> undertook me whilst I turned left (indicating for

> some time).

My understanding is that if a cyclist is allowing the traffic to flow by cycling on the left hand side of the lane, rather than occupying the centre of the lane, that cars are expected to wait for them to pass before turning left...unless they are way ahead of course, in which case there would be no chance of collision. Aren't motorists supposed to be looking out for cyclists turning left mirror, signal, manoeuvre?......

>

> red 2 wheels.

>

> You can even try it for free: www.geton.co.uk

>

> "The Get On ride gives you the opportunity to

> experience riding a motorbike or scooter without

> committing to the costs of training. This way you

> can see for yourself, without any obligation, just

> what fun it is ? we?re pretty sure once you?ve

> tried it you?ll be hooked!"

[DulwichLondoner]

@bodsier, as far as I understand it, the highway code has generic, common-sense indications (check if other vehicles are coming, do not try to darwinianly improve the species by riding between the kerb and a very large vehicle, etc.), but AFAIK it does not explicitly state who should give way when in these circumstances.

A little common sense would go a long way...

Highway code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

rule 72 (for cyclists):

When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Turning left

Rule 182

Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view

[bodsier]

Yes that's right, I'm aware of that, as a cyclist I would have been aware of cars turning left , however, as a cyclist if you take a lane motorists can get really irate, they seem to think that cyclists should never be there, yet it is the safest position, provided motorists overtake leaving a metre gap between them and the cyclist. If the poster undertook the cyclist, and nearly hit them, either the cyclist was going at some speed in which case the driver should have been aware of them before turning left. If they were indicating for some time, it suggests that there was slow moving traffic! And the driver should ensure there are is no upcoming traffic. If the cyclist was hit, I'm pretty sure the driver would have been at fault. Drivers don't seem to use their left wing mirror...

[DulwichLondoner]

"they seem to think cyclists should never be there"

Let's please not get into the usual "us vs them" sterile and pointless argument.

I am not sure I understand your post. Anyone (and this applies to both cyclists and motorcyclists) who tries to undertake another vehicle in a bend is an irresponsible idiot whose demise would be a welcome Darwinian improvement of the human species. There is no excuse whatsoever for this kind of behaviour. A motorcyclists should be disqualified for life - and so should a cyclist, although it's not feasible.

[bodsier]

I don't think it's as clar cut as you say. Of course it would be wise for the cyclist to hold back if driver is indicating to turn left. However, logistically if the driver had been indicating for 'quite some time' one can presume that they were going along slowly in traffic, so much so that the cyclist was going at a greater speed filtering through the traffic, so the driver I'd presume would be expected to give way to the cyclist before turning left....

Regardless of this it makes sense to be extra cautious as a cyclist, and to give way to a motorist indicating left, you are clearly more vulnerable, but it doesn't make it right to do so in all instances, particularly if the driver was virtually at a standstill before turning left.

Im not creating a them and us situation, I cycle and drive, clarification on the right of way might make the roads safer for all users. Its not particularly clear as according to the Highway Code

'Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view'

Most cyclists ride kerbside, so inevitably they undertake slow moving traffic all the time, according to the Highway Code, cars can only undertake if the right hand lane is stationary. I think it's a grey area and not cut and dried.

What I would like is for drivers who don't cycle to be more aware of the dangers cyclists face and drive accordingly.

It would not have been a close shave if the driver was using their mirrors, unless the cyclist had literally just entered the road at great speed and undertaken, as soon as they had entered it. If they hadn't the driver should have been aware of them before turning as they would have overtaken them beforehand.

It's a shame that using a sat nav was introduced into the driving test, it Would be great if there was more emphasis on the rules for cyclists. I'd be interested to hear if this is the case,

ie. How much room to leave when overtaking a cyclists,( 1 metre) 9 out of 10 times this is not applied. So often cars are Stopping inside the cycle box at traffic lights..etc etc etc... I'm not writing to argue, I just want to share some of the hazards cyclists face In The hope that drivers will apply them.

Safety is the main reason that people Chose not to cycle, and that's a real shame.

[malumbu]

So there is an occasional problem with 'ghost drivers' on the autobahn, cars driving in the wrong direction. There is an elderly couple (to bring this up to date, this could apply to other age groups) on the road near Stuttgart, when they hear an announcement on the radio. "Warning of a ghost driver on the Bundesautobahn 8". The passenger turns to the driver and says "what only one?".