To the man who was walking his 2 dogs on Ondine Road last night! (June 2011)

[pinkhalf]

Section 2 Dogs Act 1871

This is a civil complaint, although as it is heard in a Magistrates' Court, it is often (wrongly) said to be criminal. It occurs if a dog is not kept under proper control and is dangerous. Generally is dog is regarded as not being under proper control if it is neither on a lead nor muzzled.

Unlike Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991:

it applies regardless of where the incident takes place

proceedings can only be brought against the owner

a dog can show itself to be dangerous in its general behaviour, not just its behaviour towards a person

a single incident is generally insufficient to prove that a dog is dangerous, unless the Court believes that the single incident is exceptional

there is no presumption in favour of destruction of the dog

the Police have no power to seize a dog pending proceedings

the Court has no power to fine or order compensation

The Court has unfettered discretion on what to do to the dog. They may order destruction of the dog but such orders are very rare. The alternative is a Control Order (with or without conditions) and the owner will probably have to pay costs.

[celebrationoftheyear]

Peckham native Wrote:

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> I've PMed InScarlet with some info as to who it

> might be.

>

> I don't want to leap to the wrong conclusions here

> but IF the dogs were Jack Russells there is an

> older man who lives very locally who walks 2 Jack

> Russells off lead down Ondine Road and is often on

> Goose Green. There was a similar incident a couple

> of months agowith this man and his dogs but

> luckily the cat was quick and unharmed. He was

> asked to keep his dogs on a lead and he said he

> would but only 2 days ago I saw him with one dog

> off lead on Grove Vale.

>

> The dogs are normally lovely friendly dogs but are

> terriers so if off lead & see a cat they will

> chase. How can we stop this happening again?

I think we need to make sure this man gets a visit from the police or an RSPCA officer. He cannot go around with two dogs who are potentially dangerous and not have them muzzled/on leads. He obviously does not give a damn what his dogs do and the fact there has been an incident before proves he needs to be told. He can't keep carrying on without a care or concern for the cats of ED!...or other animals or even a child?

[InScarlet]

I was speaking to my house mate about the whole incident this evening. According to him the reason why he went out into the front garden in the first place was because this man was beating one of the dogs and giving the dog abuse. As he approached the owner of the dogs he only noticed what the dogs were actually up to and that there was actually no leads on these dogs. If we see him about we will defo report him to the RSPCA no wonder the dogs are vicious because the owner probably beats them. He obviously can't control his dogs.

This is making me think twice about me letting my cat out of the house. :s

[ClareC]

Definitely needs reporting to the RSPCA, he isn't fit to own animals!

[eclectic]

InScarlet,

Well done to you and your housemates for taking the cat to the vet. It's a shame nothing could be done but at least your actions resulted in the cat's suffering ending. I'm a dog owner and don't have much of an affinity for cats, but anyone who cares about animals should be appalled by this incident and by the owner of the dogs in question.

It's in the make-up of Jack Russells and other small terrier breeds to chase and kill rats and other small animals, and as someone menioned further up, to overcome this you need to socialise these breeds with cats and other small animals from a very early age. I own a rescue Jack Russell X who's previous owners clearly did not socialise him with cats and if he sees one when we're walking he tries to chase it, growls etc. As a result he doesn't come off the lead on the streets or anywhere else there may be cats about. Simple as that. We're working with him to try and channel his energy into other areas so that over time the chase instinct subsides but it will take some time.

The worry for me here is that these dogs have already attacked at least one cat and once a dog has lost their bite inhibition they typically do it again. And it might not stop at cats; next time it might even be another small dog or worse, a child. The authorities really need to be informed about this.

[genwilliams]

Good on your housemate for diving in and trying to help - even small dogs can be scary when they're in attack mode, and these dogs were obviously in that state, so that in itself is pretty courageous.

I hope the guy can be identified and reported to the police. If he doesn't know how to control his pets and stop them maiming another animal, (i.e. walk them on a lead, with a muzzle if need be) he shouldn't be a pet owner, and those dogs need and deserve a responsible owner who will train and supervise them properly so they don't get into trouble! I would be very sad if this incident led to any harm coming to the dogs, as it isn't their fault, but this can't be allowed to happen, to another animal or indeed to a person.

Poor cat. I'm glad you and your housemate were there to help it and give the poor wee thing some comfort.

InScarlet Wrote:

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> I think they were Jack Russell Terriers. He

> refused to give us his name and details. But

> apparently he walks his dogs around here all the

> time. He has no control over the dogs. One of them

> tried to attack my house mate whilst she was

> trying to rescue the cat.

[first mate]

Hi agree with everyone that the man needs to be held to account, he should not have had his dogs offlead and if this was clearly made law for all public paths (excepting parks)it would make life a lot simpler and easy to prosecute those who do not adhere to the law.

Can I just clarify again that because a dog goes for a cat it does not mean it is vicious. Even if a dog is socialised with cats that it lives with, it may well still go for cats it does not. Prey drive is very distinct from other forms of aggression and some dogs are born with a high prey drive.

A dog that attacks cats is not more likely or just as likely, to attack people or children. The latter is a completely different form of aggression involving different brain areas. That said, no dog in full prey drive mode or indeed in a fight with another dog, is safe in terms of human intervention. The dog is in a very high arousal state and will bite at anything that tries to separate it from its prey. Anyone who knows about dogs will advise that any human intervening in these situations is likely to get bitten.

Again, you have to know the type of dog you have an control/train appropriately. Having, in this instance, high prey drive terriers careering offlead around London streets is highly irresponsible.

[Moos]

My other half has seen this man's dogs attack a cat before. The cat got away, but the owner was not on control of his dogs. This is clearly an ongoing pattern of behaviour.

[first mate]

Moos,

And they will carry on doing it. It's in them and now they have a taste for it- in the same way that a cat that gets one bird rarely stops at one. The man must be brought to book.

[Frankito]

What an awful story.

B*****ds like him give the majority of us responsible shit-lifting dog owners... He must know what his dogs are capable of and to let them do something like this, he deserves to be prosecuted and to have the dogs taken off him.

Poor little cat.. X

[Willard]

This is shocking. Truly horrendous.

This irresponsible see-you-next-tuesday should be held to account and prosecuted. If anybody knows who he is or sees him again I would urge you to call the appropriate authorities, police RSPCA.

Really awful thing you had to deal with there.

[milliemum]

I have dogs and I have cats who live happily together, but as FM says that's no guarantee that they won't go for other unfamiliar cats on the street. I have lost a beloved cat like this myself and it's horrific. There seems to be a plague of people walking their dogs on the street without leads. It's pure exhibitionism...look at the power I have over my dog who stays by my side (not). I would no more walk my dogs without a lead than go out without my clothes. Poor little cat. Please report this man. It's not the dogs fault. They are just being terriers.

[Frankito]

Totally agree Mrs M...

[jane1]

if it is the same man that i am thinking about his so rude and needs a kick up the a..e too, that poor poor cat..... his always walking the dogs on goose green,

[cassidy]

If its the man i'm thinking of he lives by the side of goose green on east dulwich road and dogs are always off their leads and he can often be quite rude. He definately needs talking to about this matter and those dogs nee06.d to be on a lead at all times.

Poor cat if dogs were leaded in first place there would be less chances of things like this happening.

Any description of the cat just in case it wasn't a stray

[pommie]

this is disgusting and definitely needs investigating. You should ring the RSPCA and make a complaint, also about the fact that he has been seen beating his dogs. They should be able to help you in taking this further

[Willard]

cassidy Wrote:

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> If its the man i'm thinking of he lives by the

> side of goose green on east dulwich road and dogs

> are always off their leads and he can often be

> quite rude. He definately needs talking to about

> this matter and those dogs nee06.d to be on a lead

> at all times.

> Poor cat if dogs were leaded in first place there

> would be less chances of things like this

> happening.

> Any description of the cat just in case it wasn't

> a stray

Cass, he doesn't need talking to he needs reporting to the police. Is there anyway you can get together with the OP and the housemate and confirm it's him?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

pommie, I think the reference to him hitting the dog was him trying to get the dog off the cat. It's not his usual behaviour to them.

And can I just comment that while what happened was terrible and he needs to be reeducated with regard to the dogs (who by the way are absolutely fine with children), I have always found him a very affable chap and I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the witch hunty tone of this thread.

[pommie]

peckhamgatecrasher

maybe next time you see him with his dogs you might want to suggest he keeps his dogs on the lead then

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I certainly shall, pommie, that's the least of my civic duties.

He's an old chap who derives a great deal of pleasure from his dogs, and doesn't ill treat them (in my opinion). However, possibly he doesn't understand the instinct that terriers have and I will happily point this out and suggest ways of curtailing that urge.

[Peckham native]

My Mum spoke to him today on Goose Green. A couple of months ago she asked him to keep his dogs on a lead after I'd witnessed one of his dogs chasing a cat through my front garden in Ondine Road. The cat narrowly escaped. Then he was apologetic and said he would keep them on a lead. When she saw him today he didn't deny it was his dogs but he became abusive and said he could do what he liked with his dogs.

We have often found him like this, one day he will be chatty and friendly but another time he can get very animated and verbally abusive. I know he has has some serious health issues in the past and I'm sure he loves his dogs. As Peckhamgatecrasher says the dogs are fine with children it's just the issue of him refusing to put them on leads. From how he reacted today he is not going to change. A dog walker who knows him quite well is going to try to talk to him but I fear it will make no difference.

I would hate to see this end up with the dogs being taken from him but I can't really see him changing and I don't want to be reporting on this forum in a couple of months time that one of my cats has been injured or killed by one of his dogs.

[tallulah71]

my dogs are great with children but would kill any cat if it could. I always walk them on the lead until we get to the park. Illness / age is no excuse - sorry! People loing their pets just because someone doesn't want to walk them on the lead? Come on......

[pommie]

sorry but no dog is safe around kids. There have been plenty of family dogs that have attacked kids for no apparent reason.

[tallulah71]

Er......my dogs are completely safe around children. they are well trained, and used to very small children. In all 30 years I've kept dogs, none of them has atttacked anyone.

[Pugwash]

We had greyhounds who were not cat friendly so thay were always muzzled outside the house just in case. very friendly with children although we always kept an eye on them just in case.