David Cameron attack on absent fathers

[StraferJack]

"most men struggle to even change a nappy"?

Have you swallowed a generalisation pill today? I can't believe you think that's acceptable to stay with a straight face

[Atticus]

'Truth is that most men still struggle even to change a nappy let alone cook meals and take the kids to school and everything else.'

Over and out.

[Loz]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> Because I'm making the point that when it comes to

> who does the bulk of childcare within most

> families very little has changed. If men want the

> law to consider them on an equal par to women (all

> other things being equal) then they need to see

> the role of childcare within the family unit as

> one of equality too. Truth is that most men still

> struggle even to change a nappy let alone cook

> meals and take the kids to school and everything

> else.

Hello? 1985? Is that you?

I don't know I it's a middle class thing, but this little caricature is so far away from reality of the families that I know as to be unrecognisable. These days it is a completely joint effort.

[DJKillaQueen]

Well unfortunately it's not a caricature. Even the fatherhood institute themselves admit that two thirds of fathers are not involved in the childcare of their own children on anything like an equal par of the mothers. Hmm so that's most fathers then is it not?

[Undisputedtruth]

a bloke Wrote:

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> Mike?

>

> Well ok, I'll put my neck on the chopping block.

>

> There is a big problem in the Afro- Caribbean

> community with Feckless fathers. I'm not sure if

> it's a cultural thing?

> Cameron would never have come out and said it and

> it's not true of every Afro-Caribbean absent

> father, but it's definitely something I've

> noticed.

>

> Please form an orderly queue if you want to accuse

> me of being racist.

Barack Obama said something similar to black afro-americans.

[Loz]

From a base of, what, single figures not too many years ago? Give it another few years and it will equalise even more. Social change in the area of parenting is happening fast. Fathers are demanding equal roles. The courts are way behind on the reality.

Because even if that stat is true, for those one-third of families where the parenting is equal you would still start with the assumption that the mother is the best custodial parent and then let the father prove otherwise (as happens at the moment).

Even in case where the prime carer is the father, mothers still have the upper hand. If a couple splits and the father is stay-at-home dad, courts generally demand they get a job if they want to be even considered for custody. No court would ever demand that of a mother. I can dig out cases from the UK where a father has stayed at home and been primary carer for years, but still lost custody.

The family court has an inbuilt bias, and your arguments show that their not alone in this awful, dated attitude.

[Pugwash]

My parents seperated when I was 2 years old and my father was allowed to see me twice a year. I hated going out with this 'stranger' for the day. It was not until I was 16 plus that the courts revoked the order and I had unlimited access

to my Dad. I got to know him and my stepmother more when I worked in a residential children's home near them, I was 20 at the time. I am now listed as my father's next of kin and hold a lasting power of attorney for him as my step mother decided that she did not want him living with her and he went into a care home.

I always stated that if my husband and I ever split there would be no limit on how often he saw the children and that we would come to an amicable financial arrangement.

Hubby's daughter by first marriage - he financially supported her even when on the dole, access was messed up by ex wife and used as a means of getting extra money. Many years later, hubby sees his daughter regularly and phones weekly - yet her mother has not seen her for over a year ( and lives closer to her)

[mockney piers]

Wow DJ, I realise your pathological need to be right means you can't retract anything, but you really do dig holes deep when you try to justify some of the crap you come out with.

[KidKruger]

Pugwash - if you and fella ever split (which of course you won't), chances are it would be non-amicable and once the tensions of asset splitting etc etc take their toll, the (worthy) aspiration may not be achievable. If there's a lot of anger the offspring are liable to find themselves weapons, withdrawn then reinstated by the custodial parent.

Eventually it could end in proceedings to finalise some kind of pattern. The ideal is surely as much time with both parents as is POSSIBLE. Unfortunately the courts don't follow that line. The custodial parent will argue it's a distraction to the child's life having non-custodial parent interrupt it by turning up to spend time with the child (the previous years' of successful joint-parenting being conveniently forgotten).

Very possibly, one of you would be designated as 'chief' parent by the courts, the other would be assigned a schedule of 'contact' (isn't that what we do with aliens) to settle the disputes over who spends time with the child(ren) and when. The child is the loser in these situations, because the courts are spineless.

[*Bob*]

The Work Institute have admitted that two thirds of Mothers are not involved in work on anything like an equal par with Fathers.

Hence - The truth is that most women still struggle to turn on a computer, let alone understand a pie chart.

[KidKruger]

Gulp !

[DJKillaQueen]

What has being able to turn on a computer got to do with parenting?

And I referenced the fatherhood institute for a reason, because they are the most pro father research group out there and make a very good arguement as to why more fathers aren't as involved with their children as mothers. It's sensible well researched stuff. By the way they say that it has taken 30 years to get to one third from just 3% so in other words around two generations. They also make the point that most men still see themselves as the primary provider (by working) which also reflects little shift in that traditional stereotype even though in increasing numbers of families both parents work. They also make very good points, based on reasearch as to the importance of a fathers involvement in the early years of a childs life.

Some of you may think that the leafy world of ED mirrors the rest of the country, but I'm afraid it doesn't. All the research concludes that men and women on the whole still have traditioanl (and I would agree outdated) views of the role each plays within family units.

With regards to the courts, did I not start out by saying the system is not perfect? And that where all things are EQUAL (so that's not where father has been stay at home day and mum then gets custody) that the court is right to place preference with the mother for the reasons I stated above. Most women would get that. Most men don't of course.

I do wish sometimes people would read posts properly instead of jumping on singular points and then taking them out of context. It's just my view at the end of the day and this is just a forum. MP I have no time for posts that have no substance but seem intent only on personal insult - and you are better than that.

Anyway if you only want a forum where everyone agrees then you got it. I won't be posting anymore except in my footy thread. I've had enough of childish people and bullies from this forum over recent weeks.

[KidKruger]

Cat calls the Dog "hairy arse".

[Ridgley]

DJKQ Wrote

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Anyway if you only want a forum where everyone agrees then you got it. I won't be posting anymore except in my footy thread. I've had enough of childish people and bullies from this forum over recent weeks.

This forum is for all points of view, whether you agree with other people opinions or not nobody should feel like they are being bullied or pushed out it is not expectable behaviour DJKQ you have a right to your opinions as well as anyone else you go girl!!

[StraferJack]

we do

Maybe I'm thick and just misunderstanding what you mean by "most men don't get that of course". I mean I'm reading it properly I think . I just can't believe what I'm reading

And having read the thread I can't see any bullying - just someone making very silly claims and being called on it. And then claiming they are being bullied

[mockney piers]

I'm pretty sure this forum reached critical mass because of its childishness rather than its pofacedness.

[*Bob*]

They can't though, can they? Women, I mean. Use computers and operate machines and all that. Not very well. They don't do it as much as men, so it follows they ought to be less good at it - and be paid less and have less rights (in practice, if not on paper - nudge, wink).

Seems fair to me. "If it aint broke.."

[Ridgley]

Bob you love to wind people up don't you? I have observed your previous comments on the forum some not even relating to the subject at hand I can conclude you to be a little Machiavellian at times;-)

[*Bob*]

Not really. I'm just saying that traditional associations and reinforcement of such can lead to inequality which in turn leads to traditional associations being reinforced, which etc etc

That said, should a fella be in the heat of a discussion about all of this with TheMissus and they happen to remind him about the 48 hours of primal agony and the fact that their vagina was stetched to the size of a watermelon and needed stitching-up.. their opportunities for comeback are kind-of limited.

[Ridgley]

Bob wrote

---------------------------------

That said, should a fella be in the heat of a discussion about all of this with TheMissus and they happen to remind him about the 48 hours of primal agony and the fact that their vagina was stetched to the size of a watermelon and needed stitching-up.. their opportunities for comeback are kind-of limited.

You said it:)

[Jessie]

ps DJKQ, two paarents *can* (and do) have joint custody by the way. We do. Split it fifty-fifty and the boy lives with both of us, roughly 60-40. Shared parental responsibility. It can happen, does happen.

[a bloke]

DJKQ is right about one thing. I've noticed there's a really smug and snidey little group of you who regularly dig her out.

[mockney piers]

It's consonantist if you ask me!!!

[StraferJack]

"a bloke" is bound to have sympathy with someone he believes is being picked on.

But DJ shouldn't feel picked upon. ANYONE who comes out with a strident tone couple with opinions such as those expressed here is going to get pulled-up

[KidKruger]

Jessie, you're correct of course it CAN happen and DOES happen, but where the parents are WILLING.

The courts will not try to enforce shared parenting when there is dispute, they will take the cheap route and exile the child to a 'main' parent (the Mother).