London Bridge station - your thoughts

[malumbu]

Colleagues are wetting themselves with excitement but I was a little underwhelmed - cavernous but soulless, you need to go into the depths of the earth to change trains, faster connections onto Charing Cross but on my line a poorer service from LB as so much demand has moved to the Overground, and the continued feeling that the South Eastern trains have the priority over Southern, as they have progressively for the last 20 years.

When I arrived in London the LB area was the 'bottom end' of central London (being polite), grotty pubs and a market. But you sort of got used to it.

That said the arrival of the Overground for those of us near enough is a total game changer, meaning that LB is avoided on most occasions, and changed the demographics of much of SE London (for the good and bad!), Congestion at Canada Water and being a 'victim of its own success' is a separate issue.

So am I being old and grumpy or is the new LB the Emperor's New Clothes?

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's 'nicer', but I don't find transfers any quicker. Overall, no doubt an improvement, but frankly, I am more concerned with having a reliable, regular train service from ED.

[fishbiscuits]

Transfer from the train to the tube takes much, much longer than it used to. And either route you take (via the lower concourse, or via the main exit and down the escalator) takes you through an arcade of shops.

Seems like retail is the main driver.

[Robert Poste's Child]

It appears to be designed to make you walk further, which is frustrating and adds to your journey time, particularly if you have heavy luggage. Presumably this is done to avoid the risk of bottlenecking at busy times and make crowd control easier when services are disrupted at peak times (so every day of the last five years then). No doubt making it bigger and further to navigate also increases the commercial potential.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Historically, I changed my travel patterns completely as a result of the rebuilding works. Now its mostly Denmark Hill or Peckham Rye and then the Overground, or a bus.

I rarely pass through London Bridge, when I do, it does feel more like a mall with trains than a train station with a few useful shops.

I quite liked the old Victorian ironwork, now replaced by concrete, glass and overly convoluted routeways.

So, with all of that and a refurb that seemed to particularly penalise commuters on our line. Not impressed.

[KidKruger]

I do wonder whether retail was the driver for the design - over passenger convenience.

[Siduhe]

I don't think retail was the driver - that was surely to modernise and improve access to the station as part of the line upgrades - which it has done as it seems to me. We may walk longer but it's easier to navigate, more open and there's more room certainly when you compare it to the start of the works pre-financial crisis, but then I remember LB in the early 1990s when they first planned to knock down Borough Market to allow the line upgrades for the ill-fated "Thameslink 2000" project - it's miles better than it was then.

But retail has definitely become a key way to pay for it in terms of funding and possibility of future revenues.

[Lynne]

On one hand, I remember having to use LB at night years ago and it was a dreadful place to wait by yourself. Dark, empty, no staff around (as far as one could ever see). So all this is a vast improvement.

But on the other, like everyone else, I always feel I've walked a lot farther than I need to, that's there must be a quicker route.

And thank goodness Borough Market never went, I believe it's the oldest market in London

[Michael Palaeologus]

Borough Market is very old. I have been in the Trustees meeting room and the list of Chairs of Trustees/ Governors goes back hundreds of years.

It has taken a bit of a battering as a result of the terrorist attack in June and could use our support.

[paulu1973]

it's functional and i don't see any issues. yes the walk is a tad longer to the underground. I don't mind walking past shops - we do it everyday on high streets

[Calsug]

I think it?s great, don?t think the walk is overly long considering it is actually a very large station with a lot of platforms and lines going in multiple directions

Personally pretty grateful for the refurb, was at gare du nord station recently and made me appreciate the massive amount of modernisation the London stations have had... I would happily take a longer and more spacious walk

[BJL]

It often seems incredibly (and unusually) windy outside the main station entrance/exit (by the News building/Shard) and I can't help thinking that this is due to the design of the new buildings in the area. (Here's a 35 year old New York Times article discussing the problem.)

(Edited for clarity.)

[Calsug]

Yes its a real design flaw, I used to work in the News Building and it is always windy on that road, they have wind speed monitors on the building so clearly know its an issue but not sure what they actually do with that data or can now do about the problem?!

BJL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It usually seems incredibly (and unusually) windy

> outside the main station entrance/exit (by the

> News building/Shard) and I can't help thinking

> that this is due to the design of the new

> buildings in the area. (Here's a 35 year old

> New York Times article discussing the problem.)

[BJL]

I'm really surprised that this problem wasn't anticipated by the architects/builders...or if it was, it wasn't fixed.

[Calsug]

Think you're giving them more credit than they are due! The "Walkie Talkie" building on the other side of the river - its designed in such a way that it can magnify light enough to melt cars... and this was designed by the same guy who built another building in a similar way that did the same thing!

BJL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm really surprised that this problem wasn't

> anticipated by the architects/builders...or if it

> was, it wasn't fixed.

[uncleglen]

Lynne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On one hand, I remember having to use LB at night

> years ago and it was a dreadful place to wait by

> yourself. Dark, empty, no staff around (as far as

> one could ever see). So all this is a vast

> improvement.

> But on the other, like everyone else, I always

> feel I've walked a lot farther than I need to,

> that's there must be a quicker route.

> And thank goodness Borough Market never went, I

> believe it's the oldest market in London

I don't know how long ago you used LB station but I was using it regularly from 1993 and there were staff there late at night, the last trains to ED went about the same time as now. I think it's vile and use DH whenever I can especially for a return journey

There is always a vortex of wind at the base of tall buildings- Centre Point used to be the worst in my experience.

[BJL]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> There is always a vortex of wind at the base of

> tall buildings- Centre Point used to be the worst

> in my experience.

The problem isn't just at the base of one building - the whole LB entrance/exit area suffers from it.

[hpsaucey]

BJL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > There is always a vortex of wind at the base of

> > tall buildings- Centre Point used to be the

> worst

> > in my experience.

>

> The problem isn't just at the base of one building

> - the whole LB entrance/exit area suffers from it.

maybe it wasn't modelled well enough, or it wasn't seen as a priority?

Re: London Bridge. I feel sorry for anyone with a buggy/wheelchair. Maybe I'll get used to it but to me the walk feels interminable and the new design soulless.

HP

[uncleglen]

the whole area is at the base of the Shard- and what an abomination THAT is

[BJL]

hpsaucey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> maybe it wasn't modelled well enough, or it wasn't

> seen as a priority?

Looks like it but it's a shame that they didn't seem to think about people outside the buildings. Much of that 1983 New York Times article applies to the new London Bridge, I'd say.

  Quote

What pedestrians have complained of for years has become a source of growing concern to some architects and engineers - the danger and discomfort of high street-level winds, caused partly by the spread of open public plazas. More and more, architects say, they are considering street-level winds while designing a building.

It was not always so. ''Historically, the architect has really been worried more about the wind blowing over the building, not blowing over the people,'' said Richard Roth, an architect with Emory Roth and Sons in Manhattan.

But Lev Zetlin, a New York engineering consultant who often analyzes the street-level wind effects of proposed new buildings, urged that laws be passed to counteract the problem of street-level winds.

''The inertia of our profession is to stay just to the building you're designing,'' Dr. Zetlin said. ''There should be a city ordinance to make sure that, when somebody designs a tall building, tests are done to prevent severe winds on the street.''

[malumbu]

Croydon tower blocks - the immigration service - grim and very windy. Toytown University aka Lancaster uni, ditto.

[flocker spotter]

The underground seem to have nice helpful staff anyway