I need a group of breastfeeding and non-breastfeeding mums!

[emc]

Hi there - I work for a morning TV show and I'm looking to speak to a group of mums, some of whom are breastfeeding, some of whom are bottlefeeding (so maybe your NCT group if it there's a mixture of feeding methods?) to film with to talk about the sometimes confusing advice given out about breastfeeding.

This is to go with National Breastfeeding week next week and with a survey about to be released which shows that while 75% of new mothers breastfed their babies from birth, only 23% of these women were still breastfeeding after 3 months.

This is not about which method is best (I myself couldn't breastfeed so have my own views on it!) but about the mixed messages of how long it should be done for, the benefits of it etc. Just a bit of personal experience and some debate really. I would need about six ladies who have little babies at the moment, gather you in a cafe somewhere in East D and film with you for about an hour tops. Pls PM for more info. thanks v much

[emc]

Surely, there's an NCT group out there where everyone is doing a mixture?

[Fuschia]

Do breast feeding mothers think the messages are mixed?

[Saffron]

Last time I checked, WHO guidelines were breastmilk only for the first 6 months, but there is pressure from HVs to add formula earlier if your baby is not gaining weight rapidly. This is despite the fact that it is normal for exclusively b/f babies to gain weight slowly compared to formula fed babies. Indeed it should be looked at the other way around. Formula fed babies gain weight too quickly compared to b/f babies.

That struck me as a very mixed message.

[cuppa tea]

"This is not about which method is best (I myself couldn't breastfeed so have my own views on it!) but about the mixed messages of how long it should be done for, the benefits of it etc."

So it's not going to be unbiased then?!

[jennyh]

This is the sort of thing that I would love to do but to be honest my experience was too distressing and emotionally traumatic and having just about got over my inability to breastfeed I would rather not regress to that messy state! I hope that it works out though and would be interested in seeing the finished piece, good luck!

[sillywoman]

cuppa teaI know emc and she's very professional (as well as very lovely). I'm not sure if she's producing the piece, or just recruiting but rest assured her personal experiences won't be colouring the item at all. She is a Mum, just like the rest of us, and like many, many other women doing jobs in the media she's allowed to have an opinion too. I think she was just trying to reassure people that the piece would be balanced, rather than a 'breast-is-best' item.

[cuppa tea]

Sorry, being unnecessarily pedantic! I take it back :)

[snowboarder]

Know what you mean though cuppa - I am breastfeeding but am not confused!! Seems there is a certain spin on the piece before actually talking to the 'mums'...

[cuppa tea]

Yes i did feel that I admit, but I don't think I have the energy to be drawn into another breastfeeding debate on the EDF! And was regretting my sarcasm (in a bad mood!). I'm not confused about breastfeeding either, but the weight chart issue is something that seriously needs to be sorted out...along with HV's advice.

[Fuschia]

I don't think there are mixed messages about the benefits either

The benefits are clear but it's very popular in the media to try to undermine them

What would be far more useful and original would be a discussion about how the dismal bf rates in this country could actually be improved

[toast]

And maybe more honesty. Bf is often understandably presented as easy which it is in many ways but I have at times thought that this can set mums up to fail as when they find it tough e.g the time it takes to build up the milk supply and the craziness of growth spurt feeds mums think they must be doing it wrong or their the wrong size or their milk is not good enough.

I guess this is exactly why bf cafes etc are so important. It is so simple and is also actually quite a complicated business.

[new mother]

Well opinions do differ. I personally think there is more to be said for sharing the feeding and for the convenience of bottle feeding by either partner or a grandparent. These benefits to the family unit as a whole are often not mentioned or ignored. Let's face it. Breast feeding is currently in vogue in a certain section of uk society. Do not think for a minute that much better off women bother with it. My "rich" friends, for want of a better description, would not consider it and employ maternity nurses to bottle feed day 1. Fine if that works for their family, good for them.

The further sad point is that for some weird evolutionary reason breast feeding actually doesn't even work for many women. Unfort, some of these girls are so got at by propaganda that they feel guilty about it. great shame and waste of vital energy.

[Ruth_Baldock]

New Mother; normally, I don't respond to these kind of threads because 1) I don't represent myself and views very well online and don't want to alienate anyone, and 2) Someone has normally said what I think in much better terms anyway. However, I felt compelled to reply to your response.

You're right, opinions DO differ; however, time and time again, through different research over various years has shown that breastfeeding/breastmilk is, well, best. I'm sure it may be more convenient to be able to have someone else (partner or family member) feed baby, but often what is convenient isn't what's 'best'. Incidentally, for a few months, my son was mixed fed (under erroneous advice from a HV, no less...) and I found it a huge hassle, actually.

I also think it's slightly outrageous to suggest that better off women 'don't bother with it'. Sarah Cameron, anyone? I think this is a huge sweeping statement and is as incorrect as saying 'all women from economically challenged backgrounds breastfeed'. It's a mixed bag, for various reasons.

It is true that some women are unable to breastfed for a myriad of reasons; I do have a friend from school who never produced any milk, matching her Mum, Sisters and Aunts with this trend. A lot of women feel unable to breastfeed due to other issues; some of which could be helped if they knew how to get the right support and appropriate support was universally offered quickly. Sadly, this isn't always the case and it's a great shame when a Mother feels guilty because she 'failed' to breastfeed because she 'couldn't'. I also agree with another poster who said things such as milk coming in late and ravenous babies due to growth spurts should be better discussed, so that the assumption simply isn't 'baby is really hungry, I can't be producing enough'.

I do think breastfeeding, and getting a good latch, recognizing hunger signs is a skill that has to be learnt. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if I hadn't been to several workshops and had a very experienced MW post-birth, that I wouldn't have got the hang of breastfeeding. A lot of people just assume it all comes easily and naturally, and for some it's true, it does. But not always.

[sophiechristophy]

New mother, you post is the most ill-informed, generalised and annoying thing I have ever read on this forum.

[snowboarder]

I thought it was deliberately provocative - is it called trolling? And therefore not worth even acknowledging (umm rubbish have done so now!)...

[kittysailing]

Hear hear ruth. I am a slacker and the hassle of bottles cleaning teats sterilisers measuring stuff and all that malarky was so unappealing and frankly unnatural to me that I stuck with breastfeeding against hv advice ( he wasn't following the right line in that damn book) it is of course a personal choice but I've never understood the 'it's more convenient to bottle feed' argument. If granny wants a go express into a bottle.

[Saffron]

R_B has captured my sentiments really well but I just wanted to add this...

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The further sad point is that for some weird

> evolutionary reason breast feeding actually

> doesn't even work for many women.

It is sad, but not for the reasons you say. Healthy women will all produce enough milk for their babies. A *very few* women will have serious physiological issues which prevent them from breast feeding, such as defects in the breast tissue or hormonal imbalances.

Many western women simply assume for the wrong reasons that they are not capable of produing milk, when in fact THEY ARE.

And finally a note on evolution. Humans have had not only physiological evolution (our bodies have changed over the millenia), but also social evolution. We are by our nature gregarious, not solitary. When a women cannot breastfeed, or has difficulties with latch etc, in historical/evolutionary terms there would have been someone else there to help her. Her sisters, aunts, or indeed her own mother may have been lactating, and/or would have had significant experience breastfeeding. A woman with more social contacts, ie more close female friends and family, would have had an evolutionary advantage over a 'loner' type. This advantage would be conferred to her offsping by her better ability to feed and raise them.

Simples.

[emc]

Hello again

thanks for support from sillywoman (above) - I now have a lovely group of three breastfeeding mums who are meeting in a cafe/bar in Crystal Palace at 1pm today to discuss this item. To get a bit more balance I just wondered if any bottle feeding or mixed feeding mums who cared to join them (bringing along another friend)? New Mother perhaps? I don't think you came across as a troll - surely balance is what it is all about hence asking for another contributor.

Many thanks for all the helpful PMs I've had on this. Much appreciated.

[sillywoman]

new mother has clearly been given some of that 'confusing advice' & now is passing it on to others - she and her completely non-evidence based views will probable make great telly. I hope she comes EMC.

[new mother]

Emc, thanks. My children are too old though, despite my name(!). I tried "mother" but it was taken and I didn't fancy being "old mother", hence my name!

Others, reflect please. Opinions differ and we are all entitled to our views. I can see positive aspects of your choice to breast feed but for me and many others, bottle feeding is a better option. I could take offence at some weird statements above suggesting that bottlefeeders care less about their babies (by choosing the "convenient option")but I am secure in my utter love and devotion to both of my children so I won't! I and my husband make many sacrifices for them in terms of not going out as much as we would like, saving our moneyfor private education etc. Different people do different things and have different priorities. Surely one aspect of being intelligent or modern educated women is to have tolerance for others' choices?

Edited to clarify my point

[ratty]

Are you all ganging up on someone?

[sillywoman]

new mother Wrote:

newmother - as an "intelligent or modern educated" woman you might want to reconsider your comment quoted below? There is no evidence base for it in science or research. Whilst views and opinions on the topic of breast & bottle may differ & tolerance of others views is to be encouraged & supported, if you propagate absolute tripe such as this you must always expect it to be challenged in the strongest terms.

>

> The further sad point is that for some weird

> evolutionary reason breast feeding actually

> doesn't even work for many women. Unfort, some of

> these girls are so got at by propaganda that they

> feel guilty about it. great shame and waste of

> vital energy.

[Saffron]

I did not appear to me that anyone was suggesting that formula feeders love their children less. What cannot be disputed is the scientific evidence that human breastmilk is the best food for human babies, conferring many physiological advantages over formula milk.

You're right of course that different people do things differently and have different priorities. But having tolerance of others' choices is not the same thing as tolerating misinformation or tolerating the lack of support for mothers who want to breastfeed. Many women end up formula feeding because they have fallen vitim to the many myths that abound about f/fing vs b/fing and the conflicting advice sometimes given by (albeit well-meaning) health professionals.

I would also like to point out that others, in turn, could take offence at some weird statements above suggesting that because a woman is "better off", she "would not consider it and employ maternity nurses to bottle feed day 1". That's a sweeping and facetious generalisation, sure to be extrememly hurtful to any well-to-do woman who tried and failed to b/f due to illness or lack of support. It shouldn't come as any surprise that it provoked some heated replies. It also insults the less well-off by implying that they are forced to b/f by their lack of funds to employ a mat nurse.

Coming at this from another angle, rich women would historically have employed maternity nurses. But, these would have been wet nurses who breastfed the baby. The rise and commercialisation of the formula industry helped seal the fate of wet nursing, where it is now practically unheard of in the western world. Truly sad.

[Ruth_Baldock]

"Opinions differ and we are all entitled to our views. I can see positive aspects of your choice to breast feed but for me and many others, bottle feeding is a better option"

That wasn't the issue, or what anyone was getting on their soapbox about; it was all the sweeping generalisations. I don't think anyone is suggesting that breastfeeding Mothers love their babies more than those mother's who chose to bottle-feed; it's a very personal and private choice; one which I'm sure we all respect- but sweeping statements and gross generalisations are not helpful, and can be very upsetting.

"I and my husband make many sacrifices for them "

Don't we all, regardless of how we feed/bring up our children.