Mums with cleaners

[Fuschia]

Just to be a bit provocative ... What's the background to full time sahms who have a cleaner?

Are there any mums who work full time who don't have a cleaner?

Thoughts, please!

[Mrs TP]

Gives us more time to waste on the internet.

[Fuschia]

Lol

I am not getting at those who do it ... Quite z few friends of mine fall into this category

Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion

[littleEDfamily]

Staying at home full time is a full time job. I can't see why anyone who works outside the home has any greater justification for having a cleaner than a SAHM, well at least not when children are very little and need constant attention and create oodles of mess. When you stay at home, your house gets much much messier. I found when I worked mostly outside the home the house stayed much more manageable.

The whole 'can you manage' without a cleaner issue I think comes down to how well you are able to manage your house due to your personal level of skill and inclination (some people just prioritise an orderly house above other things). I know some families where the mum and dad both work and their house is totally under control, and others who have older children, don't work and will never get their houses sorted with or without help because basically it's just not that important to them that they are willing to give up other things in order to do housework.

I think we need to chill out about the whole cleaner-guilt thing. It's just another way people (who have the option) choose to make use of their disposable income. You shouldn't feel the need to justify it.

[craigy]

If you can afford it and want it do it.. Its not the 1950s and stay at homes have just as much right to a cleaner as full time working mums.. Plenty of women out there who want to support their family by cleaning another woman's home..

Don't see it is even a discussion point, it's a personal choice dependant upon finances and inclination I would say..

[Pickle]

I have a cleaner - got one temporarily when heavily pregnant with child #1 and still have her 4.5 years later.

My justification is that I would much rather be spending time with the kids and doing things I enjoy rather than cleaning the loo and constantly feeling like I had to clean. I do clean (and iron) on the days she isn't here, but it's nice to know that once a week someone will come and do the whole house for me. We have a 5 b/r house, so for me to try and do all the cleaning as well as juggling the children would take me pretty much all week to get round, whereas she can do it all in one go.

That said, my cleaner always tells me that my house is the most spotless one that she cleans in a week, so I obviously do more than a lot of people she works for.

I guess I'm lucky that we can afford it as well as me being at home, but both hubby and I agree it's the best ?30 a week that we spend!

[Ruth_Baldock]

We don't have one because we can't really justify one into our budget but I really wish we did! We have a largeish two bdr flat/house and there are loads of stairs which I just can't Hoover. Seb has asthma hayfever and his room needs to be thoroughly dusted/hoovered daily to avoid reactions in him. My husband and I argue about this a lot but if I cleaned everything to the standard he thinks it should be, I'd literally have to have seb with a CM for about 5 hrs a day/3-4 days a week.mil has offered go pay for one for 6-12mo when the new baby arrives; I may marry HER for suggesting it!!!

[cuppa tea]

I would LOVE a cleaner. I am a SAHM and if I want to clean the house I have to ignore the children....so I don't clean the house. It's an absolute tip! The 'background' must surely be whether you can afford a cleaner. I can't afford one as we are on a single income. If you have young children at home every day, the house is constantly messy. I have about 4 hours sleep a night most nights, the last thing I feel like doing is putting my hand down the toilet to scrub it - I am already spending most of the day cleaning food off the floor. If you are a working mum you are more likely to be able to afford a cleaner. The need for a cleaner is the same. It's a misconception that SAHM's have more time to clean the house. Sometimes I don't have time to take a pee!

[ryedalema]

I've just got my cleaner back - hoorah! We employed the lovely Sandra when i went back to work after our first daughter and sadly my OH said she couldn't continue with her while I was out of work these last couple of months.

I have to admit, that bar keeping the washing basket under control (which seems to be an obsession of mine), making home cooked meals, baking and putting new toilet rolls in the holder (oh and grocery shopping), and making sure that toys and the girls' room is tidy - I did nothing! And I hate housework.

Lots of arguments around 'you're out of work - why can't you find time for housework?' ensued.

So so glad to have Sandra back. Best ?25 a fortnight EVER!

[Sally81]

I would love one!! Am trying to convince the OH we should get one ( he helps a lot so it's not as if he's expecting me to do it all while I'm off with baby)

I feel guilty plonking my boy in his jumperoo or whatever while I try to quickly scrub the bath and loo or clean the kitchen floor. I'd much rather be with him and pay someone else to do these jobs.

I find it hard to do them with just one small child, I don't know how others with more kids manage to fit it all in. I had family visiting this weekend and hubby and I were hoovering and floor cleaning on Fri night when we should have been relaxing together.

If you can afford a cleaner, have one. It provides a job for someone else and gives you one less to do.

[sophiechristophy]

To put the cost of a cleaner into perspective, to our family it is a cost of ?2 per day to have our cleaner come once a fortnight for 3 hours. Having her is amazing, and I see it as a cost of being a SAHM, because we spend so much time in the flat, having it thoroughly cleaned once a fortnight makes all the difference in the world and takes a lot of the pressure of me and my husband. It is definitely worth it, even though we are living on one teaching salary and are budgeting very strictly. I would rather spend my 'spare' time in the day (e.g. when my baby is napping) making meals from scratch and keeping on top of the daily washing up/laundry, rather than stressing about having to do a big clean.

[bluesuperted]

I agree with others: we budget fairly strictly (in general) on one salary so we can afford a ?25 cleaner once a fortnight (and we have an arrangement where we cancel her in school holidays) and I think it's irrelevant as to whether we are SAHM, part-time working, full-time working - we're still busy pretty much 100% of the time as mums and dirt is not an exclusively female responsibility!?

I don't feel in the slightest bit guilty, it's just one of our budgeting decisions that aids the way we are able to spend time as a family, both in the week with me staying at home and at the weekend when we can all do nice things together to enjoy our time off rather than scrubbing loos. The others include buying a much cheaper house on a council estate, shopping at Asda not the East Dulwich Deli, selling on things we don't need any more, buying secondhand where we can, packing lunches for husband (teacher), having cheap meals at home where we can AND balancing this with an occasional holiday or takeaway etc.?

[littleEDfamily]

cuppa tea just summed up my life!

[bluesuperted]

It also depends on your baby/child and their age/napping ability; my baby won't nap on his own for more than 10 minutes so during his naps in the sling I do general tidying where possible, sometimes (safe) cooking, and other times we nap together in bed and I rest, read, study or do freelance work. I'm not prepared to sling him on my back just to clean the toilet out! Sounds exhausting and boring all round.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Cuppatea; and mine!

I remember being 5wks pp and husband calling up from work suggesting I give "the whole place a good clean" considering I was stuck indoors waiting for a delivery. I hadn't even had my 6wk check up at this point! Jesus h. Now that seb is a bit older he "helps" when I clean the kitchen or will sit in his high hair chatting to me/dancing to the radio or having a snack- I can manage light cleaning but no major spring cleans. I asked MIL how she coped and she admitted to leaving my husband and SIL screaming in their cots whilst she did it all- her house was, and is, spotless but I'd rather do it my way (lifve on filfth...) than leave seb and, when she arrives, new baby cryig for 1-2 hrs a day whilst I scrubbed the house. She says she wishes she had done the same!

[Belle]

Ruth - i think someone on the SAHM thread mentioned this too, that 'housewives' of yesteryear potentially left the kids to cry/tend to theirselves while they cleaned, whereas our generation is more keen to interact with our children and leave the housework.

we'd talked about getting one whilst we both still worked, and then found once I was at home all the time with a baby (esp with all the mess that entails) we had more of a need of one than before, created more mess. It's not something I'd sacrifice if we could possibly help it, esp with another on the way.

[Trish]

I work full time with a cleaner and couldn't function without one....but am currently on maternity leave. We kept the cleaner on until we found out my partner was being made redundant, so now have no cleaner. I'm devastated! And I resent every minute I have to spend on household chores!!!! I echo everyone else when I say my house is a tip because it's far more important that I spend time with my baby....BUT when I do get around to doing jobs here and there I do them a million times better than any cleaner has. Especially my floors!

I never get a chance to blitz the flat and do it from top to bottom, which is what I'd like to do. I have to do jobs in between managing my baby - and the 5 year old mucks it all up when she comes home from school anyway. And don't get me started on my other half who insists on shaking wet hands over a newly washed kitchen floor then walking around in outdoor shoes!!!

If SAHM can afford a cleaner then I definitely think they should have one and not feel in the slightest bit guilty about it. If the kids are at school then there's probably less of an argument, unless of course you're rolling in cash and don't have to worry about managing finances - in which case good luck to you!

[Moos]

I don't think it's a discussion point, any more than why buy coffee at a coffee shop than make it at home. Don't think it makes for much of an interesting discussion, the thread is simply asking people to justify how they spend their own money. Why should anyone need to?

[Mrs TP]

Glad Fuschcia took my comment lightly as it was intended.

Do agree with craigy and also with littleEDfamily especially about where your priorities lie (we put holidays before a new kitchen / bathroom / windows etc, which all needed).

I have 3 kids and 2 cats and am only a stay at home mum since child no3. The wear and tear on the house now is unbelievable compared to when I worked full time and the older 2 were in childcare all day.

Our fab cleaner does 3hrs a week but in reality the house needs 3hrs per day.

A wise friend once said 'do you think your kids will grow up remembering there was dust under their beds and the sofas are a bit tatty or will they remember the fun you have at home and on hols'.

My 90yr old widowed Nan is always telling me she wishes she spent less time cleaning when her family was young and more time having fun with them.

[cuppa tea]

Had this as an email newsletter from Naomi Aldort parenting newsletter. Thought it quite appropriate...although it's regarding our partners.

"As long as we, SAHM mothers, believe that we aren?t earning the money or that we are supposed to pay back by cleaning up or cooking, we are creating the reality that empower men to see us as less and as someone who should pay back by cleaning or cooking. You DO earn that money regardless of whose name is on the check. You are both working, only your work is more hours and harder.

When my husband returned home from his work (When my children were young I was a full time mom,) I let him know that being with children is a full time occupation and there was absolutely nothing else I was going to do. In fact, I pointed to the opposite: ?When you come home,? I told my husband, ?I need a break.? He often took the children to play or read. Or, if I was breastfeeding and busy with them, he would do the dishes and make dinner (and he shopped on the way home.) In the summer we played together as a family, going to the lake, or playing outdoors. Once back in the house, the children often needed me and not him and so he did the kitchen work and laundry in those early years.

The division of work was not gender or expectations based, but simply: As needed and as possible.

Being self-respecting and equal does not mean taking advantage of your partner. On the contrary. The more we are equal, the more others respect us and it give them freedom to be equal. Being up or down is enslaving. We need partners.

Men often fail to understand what we do with the child/ren all day long. If we try to do many other things, they come home and see that we managed to do it all. They don?t know that the children?s needs were not met. They learn to expect what we accomplish. If you get time to do things, sure, do them and enjoy. But most often, what you do is raise children, and that?s enough.

When husbands come home to a full sink and happy children, they will value you more, not less. Are they washing the dishes while they are at work? They can only realize that you are fully occupied with the children, when you actually are."

[snowboarder]

We had a cleaner pre babies, and continue to do so and I am at home with the children full time. My view is I did not give up my career to clean the house...and I'm lucky as we have decided that having a cleaner is something we want to continue to pay for. At least 1 if not 2 children are awake and need attention from me from 6am until 8pm....whilst obviously I wash up/tidy (ish)/do the washing etc I simply do not know what I would do with 2 small ones if I started cleaning the bathroom.

Obviously I know it is a privilege. We would have to both do it at the weekend like we used to pre cleaner days otherwise...

[Ruth_Baldock]

Cuppatea; and mine!

I remember being 5wks pp and husband calling up from work suggesting I give "the whole place a good clean" considering I was stuck indoors waiting for a delivery. I hadn't even had my 6wk check up at this point! Jesus h. Now that seb is a bit older he "helps" when I clean the kitchen or will sit in his high hair chatting to me/dancing to the radio or having a snack- I can manage light cleaning but no major spring cleans. I asked MIL how she coped and she admitted to leaving my husband and SIL screaming in their cots whilst she did it all- her house was, and is, spotless but I'd rather do it my way (lifve on filfth...) than leave seb and, when she arrives, new baby cryig for 1-2 hrs a day whilst I scrubbed the house. She says she wishes she had done the same!

[womanofdulwich]

I would like to chip in and say that there are a generation ( at least) of men that do not clean. I have 2 sons and they were issued with dustpans and brush toy sets at an early age, and they used to clean/ tidy with me. From school/ nursery age they can spray the cleaning stuff (like a gun- how handy) and i used to polish/ rub. I just think you are educating them. I would hate them to leave home thinking these jobs are done by someone else. Any future wives/ girlfriends would take a dim view. Nothing to do with sahm / not- we are the parents and we need to educate our children in life skills as well as reading. if they have to clean up sometimes, maybe they would not be so messy in the first place. I have seen too many arrogant teenagers- boys and girls who leave their mums especially to work around them.

[mrs f]

having recently gone on maternity leave I can say wholehartedly we need a cleaner more now than before... like so many of you have said I'm at home much more now, making loads more mess with far less time 'to myself' (read 1.5 hours (in 30 min segments) a day when the baby naps solo) when I can get everything else, other than being a mum, done eg showering and eating!.... cleaning is my last priority.... and when the OH comes back from work he would and I would rather he spent is time with the baby rather than cleaning... How do you do it without one Fuchsia?

So, do any of you lovely mums have a really good cleaner who wants some more hours (2/3 per week) that you would reccomend? I'd rather get a great cleaner first off as I don't have time for interviewing lots and seeing how they go etc.... any of you who have had someone for a few years?? thanks :-)

[bluesuperted]

In the light of all this talk of domestic equality, can we please change the thread title to 'families with cleaners' then??

I am very very lucky to have an extremely domesticated and tidy (verging on OCD) husband. His mum often regales us with stories of him with a duster as soon as he could walk... Little bit frightening but I don't doubt it's true and it obviously worked on some level!