New Controlled Parking Zone - north of E.Duwlich train tracks

[Pugwash]

James - Southwark is more generous than Lambeth, their social services front line staff have borough wide permits.

They are also more generous with supplying medical permits.

[Jim1234]

Free parking in ED is excellent. We live near the Lordship pub and I've never had to walk more than 30 seconds to where I've parked in the 3 years we've had a car.

I used to cycle to Brixton every day for my commute. When it rained I got soaked though. In that context, I don't see why I wasn't allowed to drive to/ park in Brixton for free.

[mikeb]

Jimlad- so you want to be able to park your car outside someone else?s house when you visit them. Do you spot any inconsistency there?

[jimlad48]

mikeb Wrote:

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> Jimlad- so you want to be able to park your car

> outside someone else?s house when you visit them.

> Do you spot any inconsistency there?

I have no idea what you are talking about?

People are saying a CPZ makes it harder for visitors to drive to see people unless you have a paper permit. My point was that providing your host has your registration number, they can do it all online or by phone without needing a paper permit.

I don't own a car, so it makes no difference to me.

[Penguin68]

Can I just remind everyone that the dreaded commuters who who all want to be rid of so that we can live in local streets parked in by local people include school teachers, doctors, nurses, shop workers, restaurant staff, plumbers, electricians - all those people who serve this ED community and without whom our lives would be considerably worse. Many commuters are not commuting through but commuting to ED. And if they live east: west of us, rather than north: south it is very likely they are poorly served, if at all, by convenient public transport.

[jimlad48]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Can I just remind everyone that the dreaded

> commuters who who all want to be rid of so that we

> can live in local streets parked in by local

> people include school teachers, doctors, nurses,

> shop workers, restaurant staff, plumbers,

> electricians - all those people who serve this ED

> community and without whom our lives would be

> considerably worse. Many commuters are not

> commuting through but commuting to ED. And if they

> live east: west of us, rather than north: south it

> is very likely they are poorly served, if at all,

> by convenient public transport.

Or they could just do what us mere mortals do and get on the bus/train or other options?

I heard all these excuses on our last CPZ consultation and then some more, and absolutely nothing has changed. We live in a city optimised for public transport, so I'm afraid my sympathy is limited. Having seen one prominent local business, whose activity was a major part of the parking problem try to derail it by saying that their staff couldnt possibly commute (despite printing a map showing locations of their staff and that it was actually easily doable), this is a very, very weak argument.

[Blah Blah]

I hope that includes those who are arguing for their right to keep their cars outside their own homes too Jimlad? How many of the journeys those cars make could just as easily be done by public transport and/or on foot. It is very easy to be righteous on this stuff.

[jimlad48]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> I hope that includes those who are arguing for

> their right to keep their cars outside their own

> homes too Jimlad? How many of the journeys those

> cars make could just as easily be done by public

> transport and/or on foot. It is very easy to be

> righteous on this stuff.

I have no problem if people want to keep cars outside their homes, I don't have one myself and struggle to see the need in London. I'm happy on the old moral high ground here :-)

[rendelharris]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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And if they

> live east: west of us, rather than north: south it

> is very likely they are poorly served, if at all,

> by convenient public transport.

Last I looked the Overground runs to the east and west of us, as well as at least three major rail lines and numerous bus services. I know these aren't always perfect but the argument that anyone, except those who need to carry heavy tools for their work or have a disability which precludes cycling/public transport, actually needs (as opposed to finds it a little more convenient) to use a motor vehicle for commuting into this area is simply false. Happy to be given examples which prove me wrong.

[mikeb]

Jimlad - do you or have you ever had small children living with you? I never needed or had a car before I had kids. Sometimes you have to compromise. The fact that you don?t have a car make not help you to understand the issues fully.

[Blah Blah]

Plenty of people have kids and don't have cars mikeb. You see them on buses all the time ;)

[mikeb]

@ Blah blah: and sometimes you?ll see me and my family on the bus or more often on our bikes. But sometimes a car is the best way around SE London.

Moreover, if the CPZ rationale is really about incentivising people to do without a car then let?s be transparent on this, instead of pretending it?s about making parking easier.

[Sally Eva]

mikeb Wrote:

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> @ Blah blah: and sometimes you?ll see me and my

> family on the bus or more often on our bikes. But

> sometimes a car is the best way around SE London.

>

>

> Moreover, if the CPZ rationale is really about

> incentivising people to do without a car then

> let?s be transparent on this, instead of

> pretending it?s about making parking easier.

I am the secretary of southwark Cyclists which is the borough branch of the London Cycling Campaign. We have suggested to the council that they point out aspects of a CPZ which affect people who do not have cars such as cleaner air, safer streets and less noise.

Only people who live in the proposed zone are consulted but there are wider social gains. If, say, someone previously drove from Penge to Denmark Hill, parked and caught the train, then they will be contributing to pollution on that journey and increasing the (already dangerous) congestion at that station.

I think the council tends to see the whole thing as about parking because that is such a controversial subject and seems to make people very angry whereas pollution and street danger are just seen as a facts of life.

[Blah Blah]

mikeb Wrote:

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> @ Blah blah: and sometimes you?ll see me and my family on the bus or more often on our bikes. But sometimes a car is the best way around SE London.

We hire a car on the few occasions we need one, rather than owning one and being tempted to use it when we really don't need to. East Dulwich has great transport links.

Pollution is a big issue Sally and both the government and Mayor are trying to tackle it by making owning and driving the more polluting vehicles more expensive. But this does nothing to address the big polluters like buses and other commercial diesel vehicles, like taxis, who have exemptions from some of the charges. So there is still lots to be done on many levels and questions to be answered over who pays the cost of electrifying those kinds of transport services.

[first mate]

Agreed. There seems no way at the moment to significantly improve transport infrastructure and fewer cars on the road will not automatically mean there are more buses and trains. Additionally, if more people hire cars, all those cars still have to be parked somewhere. Haven't looked at the maths on that admittedly.

For those in the incredibly privileged position of having the health, time and energy to cycle everywhere they need to then the slow, steady march of CPZ is no doubt a satisfying result. For many it will simply create more stress and hassle. Currently public transport is a lottery.

[Blah Blah]

An overall strategy is a complex thing to get right. My issue with pricing people out of driving is that, as with everything, it is the most vulnerable and poorest in genuine need that are hit hardest, like the diasbled, elderly etc. Many women don't like taking public tranpsort alone late at night either.

We complain all the time about public transport in London but compared to other parts of the country we are doing very well. No other part of the country has the frequency or coverage that London does, nor the subsidies that London transport has either. Is it perfect? Of course not. But we do have a habit in London of expecting the moon and the stars, and of thinking we have a right to no inconvenience.

When we finally decided to get rid of our cars (we had two). we were surprised to see just how good bus services were for getting anywhere, even with our two kids. The tfl journey planner is excellent.

[first mate]

I think you hit the nail on the head in your first para. Those who are healthy and able will be ok but for those who are not, the pace of change in this area is too fast. It is being driven - no pun intended- as much by a kind of fanaticism as it is by real pragmatism. It is almost as though those that cannot cope or keep up are viewed as necessary collateral damage by the visionaries.

[wulfhound]

Even with small children, easier with a car but still perfectly feasible without (especially nowadays with Uber etc.) - rather than pay up front for tax, insurance, depreciation, permits etc. and feel obliged to drive, we take cars when spending ?10 on a journey is genuinely preferable to spending the extra 20 minutes walking or getting the bus (or ?30 and half an hour, etc).. and while that sounds like a lot of money, it works out to be not very often (maybe once a month or so), so overall we're quids in. And I'm thankful we never get pestered to take the car instead of walking.. they'll ask to get the bus sometimes, but if they're tired enough not to mind the extra wait, fair enough.

Journey Planner does make a big difference - being able to time leaving the house to when we know a bus will be at the stop in 5 minutes, that kind of thing. Having said that, I'm not sure everyone is adjusted to that world yet. Getting around on public transport when basically the entire system is visible at your fingertips is a massive, huge difference to the turn-up-and-hope lottery of 15 or 20 years ago.

[first mate]

I assume that if you have small children you are relatvely young and fit? So, for you and those like you, this system is perfectly feasible. You are also able to make use of newish technology (smart phones and the like) to utilise journey planners. Some older people get the hang of this but others don't. You also seem to have a job that does not necessitate regular use of a car, many others are not so fortunate.

[dc]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> My issue with pricing people out of driving

> is that, as with everything, it is the most

> vulnerable and poorest in genuine need that are

> hit hardest.

I seriously doubt that we?re getting remotely close to the ?most vulnerable and poorest? in this scenario. In Southwark the last census (2011) showed that 58% of households didn't have access to a car. Just in case you think that figure is out of date and things might have changed, the previous census (2001) showed that 51% of households were in the same position. So we appear to be looking at a declining trend of car ownership across the borough.

[Blah Blah]

That woud make sense. Cars are expensive to own in London. We spend far less on the occasions we hire one than when we owned one.

[first mate]

DC, But do borough-wide comparisons really support the point you make? ED does not have a tube. Other parts of Southwark are much better served in this respect, so transport options are greatly increased for all.

[Pugwash]

Both my husband and I have a disability which affects our mobility but not severe enough to qualify for a Blue Badge. If going down LL or to Peckham, we use the bus. The exception being if we go to Lidl or take our cats to the vet in Peckham. We do not use the car so much now that we are retired but since family members live in Kent, Sussex and Essex - we need a car to visit them. Also we do emergency child care and need immediate access to transport.

We try to be environmentally friendly as far as possible using public transport. However, if we use the train for the family in Essex, we have to fork out additional money for taxis at the Essex end as buses do not go near our daughter's home. Sussex visits by train are better as bus service is every 20 minutes from the station.

We have double yellow lines outside our house and thankfully our house is one of a few with a hard standing which was present when we purchased the house in 1974. Visitors frequently end up 10 minutes away due to insufficient parking spaces.

[MellowYellow]

I?m relieved to read that others who have experienced just 2 hour restrictions have found its worked as I was worried it wouldn?t. I?m also a St francis Road resident and am utterly relieved that we will finally have a CPZ. I am fed up of never being able to park on my road, ferrying small children and shopping from a distance so that commuters and those getting to the hospital can park free of charge all day long. The dominoes drivers are another issue on our road. Whether that will solve this or not I don?t know....wait and see!

[Abe_froeman]

I wouldn't celebrate too soon, themorgannons...

To quote James Barber from the start of this thread

"It will clearly add more parking pressure to residents south of the East Dulwich railway line. ...

I have asked why the Dulwich Community Council were not consulted and that the decision be deferred until we meet in January."