Poor Kids on BBC last night. An Idea.

[Huggers]

hello everyone, did you watch Poor Kids on telly last night?http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011vnls just type it in your server thing, it will come up.

it struck me that one of the greatest financial stresses on families struggling at the brink was providing school uniforms for their children. Sam, one of the main children in the programme, was bullied at school for wearing his sisters old school shirt and his trousers were too small and torn. This was basic stuff- white shirt, grey trousers.

But to replace them put massive strain on the families.

What struck me was this- every time I recycle basic school uniform when my children grow out of it, it goes to local charity shops. Local charity shops are there to make money for their charity. They also are in a middle class area which can then take advantage of the bargains in the shop. Uniforms, because they are replaced more regularly, are in better nick.

In the gorbals, I doubt there are charity shops for people to shop in that have such a regular recycling of clothes. If the clothes are contributed from the local area they are going to be few and far between, and are also going to cost the needy money.

I'm sure the salvation army do some kind of collection and redistribution.

What I was thinking was this...what if I could directly recycle my old uniforms and school shoes (in good nick, just grown out of but a hideous expense to the needy)to those kind of families in other parts of the country. Which would mean setting up a national recycling and distribution network, including laundry and ironing happending somewhere along the way unless people really committed to doing that before they donated the clothes.

Any ideas?

Just think this kind of direct action could have a considerably beneficial impact on these families NOW. We have the stuff- they don't. Please rewatch the prog if you havent. It was so moving.

It shamed me. The children were so stoical, intelligent , hopeful, ....

[Saffron]

I saw part of the program, very distressing. Your idea is a really good one. I'm slightly surprised something like this doesn't exist already b/c it really should! I have no clue how you'd go about setting up something like that, but I bet there are people on the Forum who do. :)

[zeban]

That's a really great idea Huggers.

[david_carnell]

What struck me was this- every time I recycle basic school uniform when my children grow out of it, it goes to local charity shops. Local charity shops are there to make money for their charity. They also are in a middle class area which can then take advantage of the bargains in the shop. Uniforms, because they are replaced more regularly, are in better nick.

Whilst I think your idea is sound, I have to take issue with the idea that we live in some sort of affluent bubble. Areas of Lewisham and Southwark have some of the poorest neighbourhoods in the country (check the Indices of Deprivation website). Your uniforms probably do just as much good in charity shops here as they would in poor areas of Glasgow.

[zeban]

That's very true david_carnell. It would be interesting to see who it is that buys the uniforms from the charity shops around here.

[Goodliz]

I watched this last night and was so moved by it.

For your idea to work I think it would have to be something that is run via the schools network. I have no idea how it would happen but that is the only network I can see with facilities and contacts in place for schools around the country.

Where I grew up in Liverpool there was quite a stigma attached to wearing second hand clothes. We were pretty poor (not that bad but still poor which made us stand out) but luckily my mum knitted and made lots of stuff. I also had to wear handmedowns and stuff from god knows where (friend's children and salvation army) and just deal with the flack from it - not nice for any kid.

This programme was just tragic and the biggest impact for me was that I could easily see how children like these would be tempted into crime once they reach an older age like teenage. They come from such deprived backgrounds and I imagine they cannot see anyway out of it. The children are the real victims and for so many of them there is no way out.

The programme has really stayed with me. So so sad. It was a shame it was on so late as I think our kids could learn alot from it and realise how lucky they are not to be born into poverty.

[DaveR]

I had exactly the same thought, for clothes and shoes generally, but also books, toys - almost anything, in fact. How much stuff gets given away on this forum in the course of a year?

Setting up a national network from scratch would obviously be difficult and expensive, but this should be capable of being done commercially. The basic costs of doing this in bulk are pretty low - as we know, there are companies who are able to make a profit shipping donated clothes from the UK half way round the world for resale at (presumably) very low prices. If the figures quoted in the programme are reliable (e.g. 80% of families on a particular estate in Glasgow on low incomes) you would think this business model would work within the UK.

[Huggers]

I think doing it through schools might be good idea. But would the stuff go to the right children.

In our primary school you can already give your old uniform to the school, and I think anyone could ask for it regardless of need. It was just a good way of recycling.

re charity shops- even at three quid a throw, that is still too much for these families. Yes donate to charity shops if you want or some of the time.

But I would directly like to send my perfectly smart outgrown uniform sets to those families in areas of economic devestation like the gorbals.

David carnell, did you see it? the day to day abject misery was something to behold and these are communities surrounded by the same thing.

Do you remember the brown paper parcels we used to make up for the refugees. No, you are too young. Labelled with gender and age. I can't remember who the packages went to, but then they went to distribution centres.

The thing is, those families depicted did not have access to charity shops and they did not look like they would turn down second hand stuff. that stuff was just not circulating in such an impoverished community.

Yes of course Lewisham and Hackney need the stuff in charity shops, but by the very nature of those localities means there is stuff available.

the uniform thing was the biggest obvious social divide thing identifying children at school. It was a source of shame. These children had ripped and undersized clothes. It affected the way they saw themselves and how others saw them. Of course their other problems were huge, but this would be a tiny step to helping out.

I am going to ask the Salvation army if they do anything like this.

The main thing I am thinking is of all the extra stuff that London must have compared with these other communities.

[Huggers]

just want to add that 'turning to crime' wasnt the thing that struck me as the greatest threat to these funny, articulate, unself pitying kids who were more worried for the burdens on their parents than on themselves and who expressed need, but not greed - but the waste of their potential in the wasteland they were struggling in.

[Saffron]

The little girl saying that when she cuddled her baby sibling, she could smell the mold from their flat was particularly disturbing.

[nunheadmum]

There are plenty of 'middle class' areas (or at least, not hard up) areas around Glasgow and the Gorbals where they probably have just as much left over stuff from kids growing up as we have. This should be able to operate locally.

But I think there is a much bigger stigma of second hand in the area than there is around here. We have the comfort of doing it to make ourselves feel better and there is even a bit of kudos in being eco and not indulgent - when you're wearing hand-me-downs or charity shop clothes and the other kids are having a go at you, it feels a bit different! And there's a much stronger under current up there about presenting a good front. I guess lots of folk remember not having had as much (I know I do) and there's more of a culture of showing that you've got past that.

I'm not saying that there isn't more that could be done - and maybe London second hand would have more kudos in the playground. But it's not as simple an issue as it might seem. In a way though quite scary that things could get to the point they seem to have (sorry didn't see the programme) when there are resources locally that could help. Hopefully it gives the local folk a bit of a kick up the backside to put their old built in approaches behind them and take the risk to try and help. I'm sure it's not a true lack of goodwill that's the problem.

[nylonmeals]

I need to watch this in iPlayer when I get home this evening. I meant to watch it and now reading this I think that it sounds like essential viewing.

I thought that the idea of a better network of clothes/toys/books etc sounds very sensible. (although aware all these issues for kids surrounding second hand stuff generally)

I wonder if its something that needs an email to the Mayor's office to see whether anything like this already exists in London. Happy to do that if others think it might be interesting.

[Goodliz]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> just want to add that 'turning to crime' wasnt the

> thing that struck me as the greatest threat to

> these funny, articulate, unself pitying kids who

> were more worried for the burdens on their parents

> than on themselves and who expressed need, but not

> greed - but the waste of their potential in the

> wasteland they were struggling in.

I said that when they reach teenage it is a possibility. I was meant to be working earlier so did not have time to elaborate.

I agree those kids were all those things you say but then they do reach teenage and start to work out for themselves how unfair the world can be and FOR SOME AND INDEED NOT ALL crime can be a temptation as a way of getting money to buy nice clothes and food and credit for the meters.

You could see how lovely those kids were they all talked about saving up and needing to get a good job. But unfortunately they are easy prey for some older people to manipulate and lead astray. I am not just talking about these children - just the inequality of life in general.

[Mrs TP]

Brilliant ideas just the delivery that needs fine tuning. I cried (with delight) when they demolished that hell hole in Glasgow. Thinking about how I live my life maybe I should start donating our stuff to the charity shops in Peckham rather than Lordship Lane.

Was also pleased to see a program that wasn't stuck up the gov't's backside, which there does seem to have been a lot of lately but was showing just how it is for many people. Hope David Cameron and his cronies got to see it - perhaps that's the solution we get Sam Cam on board to organise Hugger's ideas, could be her part of the 'big community'.

[Huggers]

yes there may be stigma attached to second hand clothes, but some of these children were in rags, boys wearing girls shirts etc. The children shown on telly last night seemed to have no such reservations.

Goodliz, point taken, just wanted to describe to people who didnt see programme how these kids seem to hang onto their values despite their conditions.

[BB100]

For a few years I have been listing school uniform and good school shoes on ebay for 10p a bundle to make sure they go to a good home. I have been surprised by how they are always bought by people from up North who pay by postal order and who are always very thankful that their children get good quality clothing.

However, there are quite a few boys in London schools who I've noticed wearing girls tops. We usually try to help them with leftover lost property.

[Huggers]

that's interesting and a way of recycling stuff to people at minimal cost to them- as long as they have computer and I may give that a go, with minimal postage. Do you fix a price? or is that how the bidding goes?

Although there are needs for many different things, I am only thinking uniform and shoes. Because these are not personalised items, they are neutral. They are not hand me downs chosen by other children/parents but could become a shared resource. Uniforms all start smart and don't stay that way...so how would anyone else know it is a hand me down? the wearer could have worn it out a bit himself!It's when things are incongruous that you can tell- dated clothes, wrong gender etc.

Also a simple idea can expand if it works, but other clothes, toys etc are not based on targeting a very specific need that is not dependent on taste.

[womanofdulwich]

i thought most schools have a pta second hand clothes cupboard? i have always given my outgrown stuff to them- and acquired sometimes too.

[Huggers]

i rest my case.

[canadianlisa]

I work with many families in similarly impoverised situations within Southwark. I think that most families who were having difficulties with school uniforms would first approach the head / teacher and ask for help. As such I think that as others have said giving to the school is a good idea. In addition it would allow the head to have extra clothing to gie a child who has that day shown up to school in unsuitable unform, maybe helping them avoid embarassment.

Just to second what others have said, Southwark is a borough in which many, many residents live in poor / inadequate housing. A huge portion of the children are from very low income families and on free school meals (meaning that there parents are relying on benefits). There is a great need locally although it is easy to forget this in Dulwich. However, Peckham, Walworth, Bermondsey, Rotherhithe and the Elephant all have areas of poverty. Perhaps if the school near you does not have a need you could ask the head / school nurse / teacher if another school may benefit from the basic shirts and trousers.

I did not see the program but did read the accoompanying article in the Guardian. It is very sad that such small children have such grown up worries but unfortunately it is not unusual.

[sophiechristophy]

Teaming up with a school directly might be a good idea also from the point of view of being able to match uniform items to meet with the uniform requirements that a particular school might have? Agree with canadianlisa - I am sure there are young people in our area in similar situations that would benefit. For girls uniforms, there is also a great centre in Brixton called The Baytree Centre, who's service users might benefit from second hand uniforms:

http://www.baytreecentre.org/archives/0010about_the_baytree_centre/index.html

[EDmummy]

Couldn't watch the programme after tears from reading pre-televised article in Guardian magazine on Saturday. Gosh, these kids need so many things! Yes, uniforms and probably more importantly when it comes to fitting in, coolish clothes to wear on the weekend and holidays a definite. They could also do with second hand televisions. Probably the bane of most of our lives but when you are living in an area where it is not always safe to be out at night, a night in watching tele is a good alternative. Paying pound coins to watch an HP television costs a hell of a lot more than we could imagine when you are on such a low income. So many TVs are given away or sold cheaply on EDF, maybe they could go to families in Southwark who could do without the burden of HP arrangements. This could also be the case for washing machines, dryers and fridges.

Just a thought.

[womanofdulwich]

I dont think they need tv's-they need decent libraries and a caring adult ( hopefully the same one most of the time) at home out of school hours. Sorry thats not very pc, but im my limited expereince children have a tv to keep them quiet/out of adults way, but not a single book in the house.

[zeban]

I agree womanofdulwich

[Huggers]

great ideas everyone! very encouraged.

My children are at secondary school so trousers grown out of in seconds- also because they can afford to have more than one pair they are in much better condition when grown out of and can be recycled.

Good suggestions donating those particular items to charity shops out of the area- poorer bit of Southwark/east end.

Ive emailed sally army too to see whether they do clothes distribution.

Great Brixton link , thanks!